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What yachts 130' or under?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by olderboater, Sep 7, 2013.

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  1. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I do like the Captain's Cabin on the bridge deck and may well end up with that. Right now the layout we're thinking we'll end up with has an Engineer cabin and suite in the stern plus a captain's cabin and two crew cabins accommodating four in the bow. It also has another feature which is a pass through to one of the guest cabins to facilitate servicing the cabins. This would make the use of that cabin for crew very easy. Now, out Captains are basically part of our extended family now and they are a married couple so 95% of the time, they'll be in a guest cabin rather than a crew cabin. To this point most of our cruising has been on a 63' Riva and the only one to ever use the crew cabin on it is their 18 year old granddaughter wanted to use it one trip.

    Belle and I will never have the kind of relationship with crew members or household staff that you learn to expect in crew school. We're not into a lot of formalities. We don't need out bed linen changed daily. It isn't at home and this is just another home to us. Don't expect a stew on duty 24 hours a day. We aren't helpless and we fully know how to go to the galley and get some dessert and water. We do want them to all learn the formal ways and the ways taught in school so if they desire at some point to advance on larger yachts or into better positions with others, that opportunity is there.

    As to a "chef", not really our thing. If we want chef's, we go to restaurants. On a boat we'll be just happy with a cook. We'll also help. I'll probably grill half the time and our captains are the seafood experts. They catch or find and they cook. Actually our stewardesses will be persons who are also our staff for our home. We know ourselves pretty well and neither of us can imagine spending as much time as we intend to on a boat with staff and not getting to know each other well.

    So with that being our attitude, having decent accommodations for crew is very important to us. I also don't see many occasions at all that we'll have 8 guests to fill all the guest cabins. I love having a lot of our friends over on a Saturday or Sunday and even taking them out on the water or on a trip to Miami or West Palm. But two or four is the likely number on any extended cruise and much of the time there will be no guests. Our friends and family work so typically they're limited to a week or two at a time.
  2. Rene GER

    Rene GER Senior Member

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    BTW, she is for sale.

    Also new (and also for sale) is an 24-meter explorer designed by Dutch design studio Vripack with a car garage for Mercedes G-Class or Land Rover Defender. Range: 3,400 nm If it's interesting, send me a PM with E-Mail and I come up with brochures.

    explorer-yacht-andros.jpg
  3. jsschieff

    jsschieff Senior Member

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    Is the Westport 130 capable of crossing the Atlantic? Very nice looking Garden design with higher-than displacement top speed. Popular boat -- quite a few sold.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    People here will debate it's ability to do so, but my opinion is that it's as capable as most yachts. I've been on one in rough conditions and extremely impressed. It has range of 3,000 miles. Displacement of 455,000 pounds. Are there full displacement boats that will handle extremely rough conditions better? Yes. But there is always something that will do things better. Still it's a great compromise of long range ability but also being able to cruise at 20 knots near coastal. It's a proven design with 9 delivered with the current hull, 30 delivered prior to the new design. We've chartered 130's and we've been very pleased.

    One thing I found out in looking at Westport is that the 112 owners trade up often to the 130. So starting with the 130 seems to make a lot of sense. Now there have also been 130 owners to trade up to the 164, but we are not interested in that size.
  5. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The Westports are very well thoughtout for both chartering and private usage.
  7. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    3000 NM range for westport 130

    The calculation for the 3000 NM Range is only a theoretical figure, calculated with absolute ideal circumstances and may be down to dry tank. The max range cruising speed of a 39,6 meter boat (regardless of being a full or semi displacement hull) will be around 12 to max. 14 Kts. At 14 Kts it will take 214 hours or about 9 days to cover the 3000 NM. In order to propel a 455.000 lbs boat to 14 kts, you need about 1200 HP at the wheels. If you ask two MTU 12V 4000 M90 and two Onans to deliver that thrust and electrical power, you have to invest about 48 to 50 Gal of diesel per hour. With an total amount of 9969 Gal on board, this is, depending on circumstances, either not possible or very, very close. If your skipper uses common sense and includes sea margin and some reserves, no way.

    May be, you can lower the fuel consumption by a few gal, by going single engine with asymetrical thrust and have your crew sit in the lounge with a candle and eat cold food :eek:. I do not think, this is good good technique and not good for a light weight (built) pleasure boat and its crew.

    But crossing the Pond, lets say from West Palm Beach via Hamilton (Bermuda), Horta (Azores) and Gibraltar for refueling, should be possible. In the aviation business, we call that island hopping, it works but it is more time consuming and more expensive.

    As the owner, I would feel much more comfortable, if this boat would cross the atlantic on the back of a Yacht Express or similar.
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    First, no one said 14 knots. Second, no one said they intended to test to it's maximum. In fact, the very point was Bermuda, Azores route and the key distance there is Bermuda to Azores. Now you may prefer yacht express but thats not our desire. We've thoroughly checked the numbers on this boat. We've also done fuel flow testing on several 130's we've chartered in addition to the tests available from others. We like Island Hopping and yes we know it's more time consuming and expensive.

    While I fully appreciate the advice given, I think sometimes it fails to consider the purchasers desires. All our personal prejudices do enter. Many here think only steel. Many think only displacement speed. Many think only one country knows how to build a boat. I have been on three 130's including one in rough seas. I have talked to people who have run many. I've listened to the good and the weaknesses. I'd never set out to go 3000 miles on a fill of fuel. But I do know it can make the Bermuda to Azores run and I know that there is good reserve for that.

    Don't get me wrong. I do appreciate the advice and information. But I don't need to be told anymore that i don't need a boat that will go more than 12 knots and that one should ship the boat and never try to cross the Atlantic.
  9. AlfredZ

    AlfredZ Senior Member

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    Hi there guys,

    I have crossed the Atlantic on a WP130 many times and in various sea states, will do that again on the a Westport at a drop of a dime. Yes, the range is theoretical and calculated at what they call "Zero Sea State"!! Meaning no zero wind, zero drag, zero viscosity, etc.! But as said, Island hopping, picking the right weather, managing the route, fuel supply and speed will all effect the fuel burn.

    In my booik: If you like to do the trip, got the time, and can afford it, it will be plain dumb to ship a boat dry! Boats are made to be on the water, I would personally take any boat reasonably capable of doing the trip out in any condition, I simply like boating for the love of the sea and boating. If you don't, then you do the choices that suite your likings, belief and economics, don't offend or be offended.

    You all got me drooling to get down and do a crossing! I guess I should do one and document it here on YF.

    Happy holidays to all.
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Yes, you should do one, Alfred. I think many just don't understand us. And my wife feels the same way I do. Doing the crossing is something we very much look forward to. It will be several years from now before we do. We've read about many crossings on pleasure craft and, honestly, I'd cross in a WP 130 before the boats in nearly all those stories. But then those people were very confident. I wouldn't cross in a 40' Sailboat but others have done so and think it's the only way to go. I also wouldn't cross without a Captain on board who had crossing experience but many do. I would definitely be aware of weather headed our way and be cautious there. If I was two days from Bermuda headed to the Azores and unpredictably bad weather appeared possible ahead, I'd turn around and head back to Bermuda. People talk about the length of time it takes but we spend days going many other places, although not without breaks. I also believe in taking adequate crew plus extra on a voyage like that in case of problems or sickness, and I mean adequate plus in both quantity and quality.

    I guess we all have those things we dream of and those things that we have no desire to do. I don't ride motorcycles or skydive but I know for many both are extremely enjoyable.
  11. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Have you ever considered a SWATH?

    Here is the website of the most well known one that went on a world cruise for it's maiden voyage.

    Not many vessels can claim that.

    Yacht Silver Cloud SWATH Home

    IIRC It went 3 yrs between launch and it's first and so far only drydocking.

    The Builder Abeking and Rasmussen can build one to match your requirements exactly.
  12. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Boat performances

    Sorry, if my post has caused some misunderstanding.

    My statement about the range calcualtion was only ment as a general concideration on the given example of the WP 130. I never questioned the quality of a WP or the ability of this yacht to cross the pond.

    But passage making in tourist mode and relocating a yacht in self ferry mode across a large surface of water, is a totally different story.

    Crossing an ocean via island hopping and stopping for bunker and provisions and additionally explore those intermediate stops, is pure fun, if time and costs are no factor and the weather is nice.

    On ocean crossings in self ferry mode, yachts normally do not have guests and / or the owner on board. Loose items are stowed, the furniture is secured and storm blinds are installed. In some cases the crew is reduced, because service staff is not needed. Yachts in this travel mode avoid intermediate stops to the max extend possible, because of costs and time restrains. And travelling for extended periods with single engine and asymetrical thrust implies additional stress to the boat and lowers crew comfort. Last but not least, this kind of travel is boring for the crew. It is like working on a cargo ship with lower comfort.

    Also a WP 130 is a very nice yacht and perfectly capable of crossing the Atlantic Ocean as far as fuel capacity is concerned, I do not believe a yacht of this type and design is built for passage making and circumnavigation. Range is not only defined by the amount of fuel on board, it is also defined by the storage capability of provisions (especially fresh food) and in my opinion by the size and composition of the crew spaces and their associated amenities. Remember, a happy crew means a happy ship. If my sailboat is in ferry mode, the crew is allowed to spread all over the ship and to use all cabins and facilities, except the owner accomodation.

    The hull material of a boat does not say anything about its seaworthiness and durability. My sailboat is made of Alustar and has circumnavigated the globe already twice, including the Artic and Cape Horn. The only items, that failed, were some sails and a few electronic gadgets. However, for a long range explorer type motor yacht, for obvious reasons, I would take a full displacement design and steel as the hull material.

    Below a picture of a yacht in self ferry mode, the 187 ft A&R yacht Kwikumat. This yacht crosses the pond twice a year, but never with guests on board.

    Attached Files:

  13. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Maybe it is a European thing, maybe it is a distaste for FRP composites, but in your posts you certainly down play the capability of the WP 130 as a boat that can do more than average cruising. I don't think those comments have technical merit, especially in regards to using the typical short leg Island routes when crossing the Atlantic.

    For a 130', the Fuel Capacity/Storage/Crew Quarters are well thought out. If you are familiar with Westport and Grays Harbor, they have frequent waves of 8 - 10 meters in that part of the NW that close the harbor to all but emergency traffic. The owners/engineers know what big seas are, and build a product to surpass that environment right out their front door, so to speak. They are very conservative and tend to overbuild, and have been at it since the 70's (in one form or another). The mechanical systems are dialed in as are the selections for equipment.

    When you have Nordhavn 40's crossing the Atlantic and then see a comment that you wouldn't want to on a WP 130, it makes no sense, as it also does not make a true comparison of a 130' MY to a 187' MY, the volume alone is too great to add value to the discussion.
  14. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    Have not read much about the game plan when you encounter a rouge wave.

    Ferrying will seem like a better means, real quick, albeit too late for an option.
  15. discokachina

    discokachina Senior Member

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    +1 My dream too!!!
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Now I must question how much you even know about a WP 130. You talk crew accommodation. Well, it has accommodations for 7. Six in the crew quarters plus an Engineer's quarters. In addition to that, we generally let our captains (husband and wife team) use one of the staterooms, the one which is designed with a door opening to the crew quarters to provide extra crew comfort. We wouldn't hesitate if needed to let other crew use a guest stateroom. As to food and provisions, there is more than enough capacity. In fact, with the galley storage and the freezer capacity below deck there is easily capacity for 30 days or longer.

    As to the single engine scenario that's not something I'd plan. It's not necessary.

    As to the crew, you don't know how we interact with our crews. They are allowed to spread all over the ship. Belle and I would take our turns at the helm and/or watch under supervision of the captains. We are absolutely not for the crew that wants nothing but a formal owner/crew relationship. Our captains live in our guest house. Our last charter, we ended up meeting a stew's parents and sisters and along with the chief stew eating Sunday dinner at their house. We got to know her and the chief stew over the course of the charter as well as the captain, officer, and deck hand. The engineer was very nice but he did stay more to himself. We don't expect the crew to spend two weeks cramped in the crew's quarters. Obviously they have work to do but we want them to enjoy the voyage and the time with us. When we select the rest of our permanent crew, the compatibility with them and us will be important. We boat for pleasure. We don't choose to have five star restaurant service for all our meals. Often I do the grilling on the decks and sometimes I'll grill it all for us and the crew or sometimes just turn the grill then over to the crew to grill their steaks or chicken or whatever we were having. We don't want a cruise ship. We are boaters, not cruisers. I don't even like to use the word yacht.

    When we do make a crossing time and cost will not be a factor. That's contradictory to our whole purpose. The journey is part of the pleasure to us. We're not looking to make the quickest run. We would intend to enjoy Bermuda and the Azores. It's not a race. When you're taking the time to enjoy there is beauty all along the way. To someone who has done it many times before it may be just a trip to get to the other side. But to us it's a trip to enjoy and savor each day and moment. We're in our retirement, enjoy life time even though somehow we did end up still with businesses. In my former working life I kept some separation with my co-workers. But in this life our CEO and CFO are also our best friends. We were out of town for Christmas so today is our Florida Christmas. They are here for the day. Our captains are here with their daughter, son-in-law and granddaughter. I firmly believe in running a large company not mixing business and pleasure but for us boating is our pleasure, not a business.

    Now we also do understand the potential or rogue weather or waves. We understand the possible adverse conditions. But you prepare best as you can.

    You made one most important statement that crossing in tourist mode and ferry mode are two very different things. Well, our crossing will be in tourist mode, but more in just pleasure, enjoy mode. It will probably be a different mode than any of our crew has made it and we do hope they are able to enjoy it more than any previous crossings.

    You say a happy crew is a happy ship. Whenever we boat we want our crew happy. Now they may have other things going on in their lives that limit that. But we certainly don't want to be the cause of any unhappiness. If a bed isn't made perfectly, we aren't going to get excited. If they overlook something we won't explode but will simply ask. And we do prefer to ask rather than order. We treat our boat more like our home than a hotel. We don't change all sheets at home daily, nor do we on a boat. We do go into the kitchen at home and even sometimes fix our own meals. We do so on a boat. We also don't expect service 24/7. We believe in somewhat normal work hours. If we want some dessert or something to drink at 10 o'clock at night, we know where the galley is and how to get it.

    I know our approach is very different to what most here are use to. But it's us.
  17. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Ferrying misses the whole point. We're not like the chicken crossing the road just to get to the other side. We want to enjoy the journey. In our way of thinking if you are really enjoying a stop along the way and want to stay another day or two, then you stay. There is nowhere we absolutely must be at a specific time. Now generally we allow enough time and stay fairly close to our plan, but the plan never dictates. The weather often dictates. We spent a marvelous week in the Panama City area not long ago that was totally unplanned, but we enjoyed every minute. Conditions were such that in a 63' Riva we wouldn't have enjoyed the next leg of the trip or any leg for those days, so we enjoyed where we were. I fully expect to enjoy Bermuda and the Azores and when we do move on do it knowing that on the return trip we'll be able to enjoy them again.

    If you think you've seen the sunrise, sunset, stars and moon and don't need to see them again, then you're missing something. Every day and night it's different. From every place a little different. To us each time it's like the first. But then that's true for us in many other aspects of our life. When you make love to your wife, make it like it's the first time. When you see your next sunset, look at it like you've never seen one before.
  18. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Westport 130

    The Westport 130 is a nice looking yacht with a very practical layout and most probably with its GRP hull as sturdy and durable as a comparable yacht built in aloy or steel. I have not surveyed a Westport 130 but I have visited several Nordhavns from 47 up to 86 ft. They are very solid and high quality GRP boats and true long range yachts. And there is no reason why a Westport 130 should not be on the same or even higher level of quality.

    But there is a difference, wheather you live with 2 persons (a couple) on a Nordhavn 47 or 52 for an extended crossing or stuffing 5 to 6 crew and 8 guest into a 130 ft yacht and bunker fuel and provisions for weeks. The Nordhavn type of cruising and its associated level of luxury is much different from the level, the WP 130 is designed and built for. If you want to live onboard the WP 130 in the style and way it is designed for, for a longer period of time with filling the quarters available, you will find its limits very soon. Again, this is no critique on this fine boat. It is just not a long range cruiser for crossing oceans because it was never ment to be.

    The owner of a 130 ft luxury yacht which is able of buying and maintaining such a yacht, will have a lifestyle and is used to a level of comfort, that will not accept frozen and canned food, unless he is really forced to. This type of self-abasement is only done by sailors :D.

    The type of operation of large yachts of this size and bigger we see in the Med and in the Caribbean will always serve top quality fresh food. That forces the Chef to go shopping every second or third day. On bigger yachts, the land based office of the boat will order this and coordinate the delivery to the pier. Means, most megayachts do island hopping or coastal cruising, especially when under charter. The design and size of the storage space reflects that type of usage.

    I know, comparing a WP 130 with an 187 ft A&R is comparing apples with pears. The 187 ft boat was only taken to show the external measures for long range ferry (i.e. storm blinds), not for the higher volume.

    Again, the WP 130 is a nice looking boat. Not my personal taste but a very nice yacht and not a passagemaker :p.

    Attached Files:

  19. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Post Olderboater 09-04-2013

    "Experience. 30+ years of boating on lakes. Boats have included jets, outboards, inboard/outboards, inboards. Sizes have only gone up to 30 feet though. Most have been single engines but last 7 years has been with twins. Speeds to 60 mph. However, no ocean or offshore experience other than as a passenger."

    Congratulation, Olderboater. You are one of the fastes learning man on earth. Now, you already have ocean crossing experience, know how to evaluate and operate large yachts and work with crews. I give up, you are far more capable than me. It took me more than 35 years to come up to my present level of experience in the maritime business. From now on I will step back and learn from your experience.

    HTM09
  20. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    The point was rouge waves.

    Ferrying avoids them. Boats are replaceable. Lives are not.

    Do some reading. They are not included in a weather report.

    Mother Nature could care less if your view of a sunrise or sunset is euphoric.

    Cruise ships allow one to experience a crossing and all the euphoric delights it offers.


    https://www.google.com/#q=images+of+rouge+wave+damage