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Trawler Vs. Motoryacht

Discussion in 'General Trawler Discussion' started by gccolvin, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. AlfredZ

    AlfredZ Senior Member

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    GCCOLVIN: I with you wait for a true and unbiased answer from SF lovers. Yet my following words may clarify somethings up.

    About the cost of building, there is the cost of the hull, the cost of equipment, the cost of interiors, and the cost of the finish, not to mention the cost of the design and styling when building a custom boat, so the buyer can push and pull between spending and saving in any of those factors and according to the requirement. If you are looking for a custom build, then you have a wide range of options all around the world, there are boat yards that are experienced and capable of boat building in other Scandinavian countries, in UK, in France, in Turkey, in Australia, in the US, in Brazil (Inace is one good builder to mention), in East Asia. The design, requirement and budget will dictate your real options.

    You have to consider something regarding building material, am not a huge fan of Aluminium because of its metal fatigue traits, I would prefer GRP over it specially with the reinforcement of Kevlar that is more common nowadays.

    The last thing I wanna say is, a boat builder can claim anything about the boat category, after all each hull as its own performance characteristics so don't take the category for granted, see dynamic test results of the design, the weights, loads, equipment and all the factors that effect performance and stability, nowadays there are performance simulation programs that can factor everything into the equation. So the need of a good design and an accomplished project manager and good communication between naval architect, stylist, project manager, yard and owner is the key for building the dream boat.

    Have a nice day all.
  2. Telemachus

    Telemachus Senior Member

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    Initially, I had considered GRP with kevlar, but then I read that kevlar actually absorbs sea water and degrades--as does carbon fiber. That was one of the factors that focused my attention back to metal hulls. As I stated in a previous post elsewhere on the forum, I am curious if a titanium-aluminum or titanium-steel alloy might be the answer, given that this would prevent the corrosion and fatigue limitations that these metals have.
  3. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Good post Alfred, although I'm not sure I would agree on the exert quoted above.
  4. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    We are building boats in 100% carbon fiber/vinylester. Where did you read about any problems with carbon fiber..?
  5. AlfredZ

    AlfredZ Senior Member

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    Thank you,

    I totally understand where you are aiming, I was just mentioning how there are relatively unknown builder that can do a custom job. Inace is not so accomplished in the yacht business but as a steel company, have made a good commercial reference, so with a good design, a good plan and project manager I don't see they will not deliver a good result.

    Just a reminder here:
    YachtForums - Inace Yacht

    Cheers,
  6. AlfredZ

    AlfredZ Senior Member

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    :)

    Lars, I was really waiting for your input on this and your thoughts about the design and project management factors for controlling the costs and get the best intended result.

    Cheers,
  7. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Then you have not owned a well built composite boat, nor an alloy boat. While composite may not have the extreme puncture resistance of a metal boat, composite can certainly be equally as sturdy. And once you start chasing corrosion, composite will look pretty good.


    Trinity should top a short list. If you factor in final price, they will rise to the top of that short list.

    On a separate note, we need to do something about your screen name. It's not that some may find it offensive, it's just uncomfortable to say it.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    A semi-displacement can have very good seakeeping abilities. It just depends on the design. Just as a displacement hull can have horrible seakeeping abilities. For example I sure as heck wouldn't want to be in a 10' beam sea in a Trumphy with a very narrow beam. Yes, semi-displacements can be very sea worthy depending on the design parameters. Granted displacement hulls are considered the most seaworthy in general, sometimes they just are not, again depending on the design parameters.

    A sportfish can be fairly efficient at hull speed, they are comfortable, and have many qualities.

    As for Aluminum, I'd take Fiberglass over it anyday. It's not to say that Aluminum isn't strong enough, but the maintanence nowadays can be costly. Fiberglass can be plenty strong and it's lifespan is still unknown at this point. There are plenty of fiberglass yachts around from the 60's that are no worse for wear. Steel is probably the first choice of hull material for a real sea going boat, and is the easiest to repair, however it takes more maintanence than fiberglass, and cannot be neglected like fiberglass with no ill effects. For example, not putting hull zincs on the boat for a year.

    I don't understand why you feel Fiberglass cannot be sturdy? It can be bulletproof, and made as strong as you want to make it. I've seen fiberglass boats run across a reef at 25 knots and tear the entire running gear off and rip the engines right off of the engine beds and the hull is still intact. And, I've seen Aluminum boats run across a reef and get opened up like a tin can with a can opener. Steel as well. It all depends on the hull thickness or build quality.
  9. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    As raw woven materials, yes. As infused materials, I would be interested in the source of this statement.
  10. AlfredZ

    AlfredZ Senior Member

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    A small correction, I mentioned Inace and steel in one sentence while I was thinking of Hike Metal Industries.

    Thanks.
  11. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    Darn you J.

    Every time I go to post something, you say exactly what I was just about to write 3 minutes ahead of me. Must learn to type faster. ;)

    Semi-displacement hulls in fibreglass are some of the toughest and most seaworthy boats I've seen in action. Think of Pilot boats and RNLI offshore Lifeboats. These have to go out in any weather, sometimes really wild conditions, and do their job. I used to build some and have every faith in them.

    When you live on a rock in the North Atlantic, you learn a thing or two about seakeeping and strengths in boatbuilding.

    INTERCEPTOR 48 'Quiona' F6.mpg - YouTube
  12. Telemachus

    Telemachus Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, I did not note the source of the statement. I had just begun my research on yacht construction and had happened upon Ocean Alexander's webpage. They have a tab that explains all the things they do right with respect to their construction techniques. Obviously, they, like all yacht builders, are going to make claims of wonderful build quality and I took it upon myself to do a little fact-checking. In the course of that endeavor, I read that kevlar-infused hulls are actually more susceptible to sea water if the gel coat is compromised and that carbon fiber isn't a viable solution because it shares this same characteristic.

    As for my reluctance to use fiberglass/composite, etc., I have read many an admonition against using fiberglass due to rotting, lack of puncture resistance, etc.--some of which were on this very forum. Obviously, given its cost advantages, I would be foolish to discount this material had it not been for the fact that I've read so many comments inveighing against its use.
  13. Telemachus

    Telemachus Senior Member

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    1. No, you're absolutely right; I've never owned a composite boat.

    2. I will seriously reconsider Trinity.

    3. I've made a sailor uncomfortable? That's quite an accomplishment. The name is actually an homage to my grandfather, a wonderful man with a salty sense of humor. He is one of the main reasons that I am pursuing this dream of yacht building. Please let me know either here or in a PM what I can do to allieviate your discomfort.
  14. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    You are right, carbon fiber is a little less expensive than titanium. But I don´t think this is why Race boats, Formula 1 cars and Fighter jets are built with carbon fiber...
  15. doug p

    doug p Member

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  16. Telemachus

    Telemachus Senior Member

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    I didn't intend to offend anyone with my concernes about carbon fiber or kevlar. I am a neophyte, if even that, when it comes to ship construction. I was articulating the information I had acquired, some of which appears to be faulty. However, there are others even on this forum who have problems with this material.

    In my defense, I'd also like to note that neither the aircraft (fighter jets, Boeing passenger jet) nor the Formula 1 are designed to sit for prolonged periods in salt water--correct?

    AMG, were you being facetious when you said that carbon fiber is "a little less expensive" than titanium? Given my lack of knowledge and the fact that it is sometimes difficult to discern sarcasm in text, I wasn't sure.
  17. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Well, I don´t know the dimensioning when building in Titanium, but I guess it will be a little more expensive than Carbon. Especially if you have magnesium frames.
  18. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    You are clearly well written and your intentions seem sincere, but we strive to keep this community "YF" rated... Young Friendly, although I'm certain most would chuckle.

    You are most welcome here, but let's make sure others feel the same way too. Please PM me or post a screen name that is "easier to pronounce". ;)

    Respectfully...

    Carl
  19. doug p

    doug p Member

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    Hell, we are just a bunch of old farts, cross that, salts....sitting around with nothing better to do and just hoping we were at the helm of our favorite boat.

    Doug:cool:
  20. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    Young?

    Who are you kidding? :D