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The Non Evolution of the Sport Fisher

Discussion in 'General Sportfish Discussion' started by Kafue, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    I think the only company that try to put on evolution back to SF is the Ferretti Group owned Bertram.

    Bertram has introduced some more motor yachts concepts on its boats like;
    - integrated stair case as with the 630 (not internal)
    - full beam mid cabin large windows choice (later copied by Hatteras, Viking and few others)
    - forward windshield option (copied by some custom builders including Jarrett Bay, and Spencer)
    - lower helm option for the 410, 54, and 800
    - astern galley choice in the 54 and 80 models

    Other interesting evolutian choice but less regarded was the Sport Yacht series by Viking, which since Cabo presentation of the 44, and before them the Riviera 43 has seen a renewed interest.

    Now I am not so sure these are very much appreciated by the sport-fisher but I think leaving many items in decision to an owners hands on purchase can make it show if this will be accepted or not.
  2. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    kAFUE

    I probably went a little over the top with the Azimut thing, but many more people are going after those types of designs for "family" comforts and multiple uses. (I've seen people fishing off a MASTERCRAFT, holy cow!) I think even Viking has or had a line of "euro" looks, and it's one of the classic SF manufacturers. The point I didn't make well is that the battlewagon SF design necessary for competitive fishing is pretty well thought out - think about backing down hard to follow a marlin with a pacific pilothouse design, or your tight lines running over those three engines hanging off the back of a CC during a fight. I have a swim platform on my SF that any real fisherman would rip off in a minute. I think there have been any number of evolutionary tweaks that have improved the basic design/utility of a SF, but if it evolves too much it becomes a new unrecognizable species - Azimut?? Just tesasing.
  3. Bill106

    Bill106 Senior Member

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    A lot of the evolution that is happening is more than skin deep. Advanced composties are being introduced to gain efficiency and durability too! Aside from modernizing the bells and whistles, the basic design criteria is still valid, speed, rough sea handling capability at speed, range, manuverability to fight big fish are all still the same. With the exception of the northeast coast canyon fishermen the sportfish convertible is designed to be a day boat, not a liveaboard in fact very few owners even stay aboard their boats, only the crew do on a regular basis.

    Are there some areas left to evolve, absolutely! Cat hulls are being explored and I would love to see retractable foils tried but the clients are few and far between right now so not many are expending the money for the R&D to develop new, "radical" hull shapes that may never be accepted by the public.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I was thinking about this actually while at the boat show a week ago and the lightbulb went off, but stand back it was a CFL one that could break at any minute LOL.

    Maritimo, Riviera, and even Searay SB's have tried to turn a sportfish into more of a family boat, with a lot more windows, and more yacht like ammenities, and for example the Maritimo's and Riviera's haven't really taken off with the sportfish guys. They don't want the windows and ammenities, and for example I would say Searay being the least sportfish-like (but has an actual cockpit), Maritimo somewhere in the middle, and Riviera closest to an actual sportfish. And, you see very few guys buying them. Well look at both Kafue and Liberty, the Maritimo and Riviera's are built right in their backyards and they don't want them because of the ammenities and both went for diehard sportboats for the battlewagon serious business sportfish.......
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I REALLY like the Cabo 44' Hardtop. The glass windows leave less crap in your sightline when looking in front of you, instead of having a glass windshield, tower legs, AND a short piece of strataglass. All with different reflections and crap blocking your view foward. The wipers are more effective as well.

    I also REALLY like the side windows that open back about 2 1/2' so it gives an unobstructed view to the sides and you can hear and see the sea as well as jump out right onto the side deck from the helm (via the seat footrest) to run to the bow and get lines. It also gives a nice breeze.

    The boat also is quieter with the fiberglass hardtop and the rod storage in it is nice...... I've run about 6 different 44' HTX's, one as far as Stuart to Harbour Island. Engine room ingress is easier on the 45' express, but the mezzanine deck, storage, and seating more than make up for it.....
  6. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    First off, that Huckins is a beautiful conversion. I like that design.

    Secondly, I just had to throw this monkey wrench into the discussion of "boats for crusing people who fish as well". ;)

    Off to the far horizons....
    Gamefishing for Sail Under Sail (and power) :cool:

    How about this 'gamefishing under sail' concept adapted from my motor/sailer (motorsailer, motorsailor, motorsailing) catamaran design, that could fish the whole world on its own bottom....not a tournament vessel, but really long range/remote capabilities. And the non-sailer could operate this sailing rig with ease.
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-catamaran-discussion/1548-gamefishing-sail-under-sail-power.html
  7. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    BRIAN! Where the heck ya been on this post! I thought there was enough burley in the water to get a response from you a while ago! Welcome!
    I have followed your sailing/gamefishing posts for a long time. Years ago (Pre YF) I even read about the catamaran working off French Polynesia catching Game Fish wondering how easy it would be to get Perry (Perry Cats) who had a cat factory nearby to work on a design. Never went further as I bought a Riv 36.
  8. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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  9. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Hi All,

    It's an interesting topic, I've done a couple of S/F for Lightning Yachts, just trying to get back to a Series for Bill at the moment (Sorry, been developing a 44m Yacht, watch that space). I would have to say S/F's in general a bloody hard thing to get right. There's so many variables which usually has a knock on effect across the design. Then on top of that you have to stick with the design formula - boats from N/C has a different look about them for example.

    I would have to mirror Bill's thoughts as well, a lot of the stuff getting developed is hydrodynamics and materials helping the performance and bringing in the fish. The design formula of the S/F is pretty straight forward and will always make the design timeless (eg, Kafue's boat still looks great).

    If I was going to change a S/F I would have more of a focus on making the mezzanine bigger. Salthouse (NZ Built) has done a pretty good job in regards to layout in this area. Though I don't like the proportions of the cabin - hull (IMO). Keep the hull performance for seakeeping, and layout some options for the client, if he wants portholes, give it to him!

    Long live the Sportsfisher I say :D!

    Far
  10. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    From a PANGA, good effort, like they say, it's not the size of the guy in the fight, but the size of the fight in the guy in the fight, or something like that.

    I followed your post on the Alden Hawksbill, a design with true graceful yacht lines and still a game fisher. I suppose what has changed and stymied Sport Fish design has been the tournament circuit and the money involved. I am 55, have been fishing deep sea since I was 10 years old (starting of in Mozambique) and I still cannot grasp the "sport” of backing up at full throttle on a marlin using light tackle to claim a record! Who caught the fish? The Boat surely!
    Which to me is not what I fish for.
    However, please all of you avid competition fisherman, do your thing and be happy, does NOT bother me as you, more than any other group have saved more fish than any other fishing organisation!

    Point for me personally, I would be just as happy catching a Mahi Mahi, Wahoo etc. on a cruise with my family under power OR sail and not reporting back to BASE for the weigh in at all, unless the beer ran out.
    Boating is my Peace time, not my compete time
    But that is just my 2c and I have had a few Saturday afternoon cold ones already. Good to hear from you Brian.
    Cheers.
  11. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Cannot argue with that Mate!
    Looking forward to seeing your new work. Can I ask which Bill? 106 or BBC?
    Happy weekend!
    George
  12. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    I'm working on some new ideas, and a redesign of that Alden vessel and the smaller Rhodes one as well. I'm actually kind of excited about this project, and I may well post a subject thread for all to contribute to. But at the moment I just don't have that burning drive to start the project.
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-sailing-discussion/6710-motor-sailers-philip-rhodes-john-alden-6.html#post132022

    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-sailing-discussion/6710-motor-sailers-philip-rhodes-john-alden-2.html#post41824

    ...or how about reaching those 'remote locations' in the world for a new adventure...
    Why the Equatorial Pacific May Offer Tomorrow's Greatest Billfishing Opportunities

    Brazilian Hot Spot

    Glad you appreciated that vessel design as much as I did.
  13. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Hi Kafue,

    Mate, it is Bill106. I've been playing with a new design over the last few weeks with him. I think where the S/F is evolving is in whatever things are breaking or leaking, builders are ditching the part or design.
    I think PacBlue made a great reference with S/F to Porsches. The design is not really broken and still sells. If you want a Sports car to run around the streets, get the Carrera, then one can option it out from there to get the gt3 rs... just 4 wheels and scaffolding. Great for a track day, rubbish on the main roads :D

    I think there's more room to play up on the mezzanine and a builder could always grab more room there if there looking at more pleasure/lounge area rather than a nice pit to fish out of.

    I'll have a play around tonight and hopefully put some development renders up in the next couple of nights. Cheers

    Far
  14. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Hi Guys,

    Just did up some development renders of a 64' S/F. My thoughts were to increase the mezzanine area to create more deck space up there. Yes it's decrease the pit area, but as people are saying/asking, and even me for that matter - I love the S/F formula, but where can one go to get something a bit more user friendly for someone whos main aim is to not go after the big blues.

    Anyways, any thoughts on this, I'm easy? Cheers

    Far

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  15. SHAZAM

    SHAZAM Senior Member

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    Sweet!
  16. T.T.

    T.T. Member

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    This is very appealing and functional, and the balance of teak is sexy!!
    I like the space division and fishing platform has room.
  17. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Full U shaped lounge on port w/ table and Da Bar w/ sink to stb. I've always enjoyed the show while someone has One-On. Never a good place to sit for the long fights. Nice U shape lounge facing aft could seat 4+ in comfy and still be almost in the action.
    When not fighting any minnows, it would offer a nice area to lounge outside, inbound or evening.

    Now, your lounge bench on port would make a great prop for a centerfold.... Oh Wait, Wrong forum...
  18. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Very, very nice!
    Like the mezzanine. looking forward to seeing more!
    Cheers.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Looks nice. I'd ditch the ladder on the stbd side and put a staircase in.
  20. Bill106

    Bill106 Senior Member

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    We experimented with the staircase idea but it would have killed the setee on that side and some interior space too. Did the aft facing ladder to keep the setee fully useable and it actually is very functional and secure feeling compared to the much more common side-facing ladders. Here's a couple pics of the boat Far has done such a good job updating and rendering;

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