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Should I buy an Azimut 86S? Questions!

Discussion in 'Azimut Yacht' started by LukeBrick, Aug 17, 2018.

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  1. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    It s hard to tell as luck plays a part as well as the level of maintenance desired. Over the years on a 70 footer we avergaed 30/40k in maintenance and 50/60k on an 84. This year on the 84 we re well beyond that having had to rebuild the davit ($10k) and replaced two cracked shafts.

    The only way to finance a refit is likely thru a line of credit and other assets. May sound cliche but if you have to refinance a refit, maybe you need a smaller boat
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Pascal's numbers are low. He is the ships captain and parts of his salary have been involved in the ships maintenance.
    Also, spite the shafts, nothing was major wrong with his fine ship when he took over.
  3. LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    Awesome info, that's what I like to hear. Unfortunately, not everyone treats their boat that way. You'd expect more from a couple million dollar purchase... but ya know, people are people.

    If I'm looking to refit a yacht, should I look for the cheapest (but mechanically sound) yacht in it's range? For ex. not caring about the interior looks basically, even if it looks like ****.

    From start to finish of a complete interior, electronic, and gorgeous finishes, how long should I expect her to be tied up at the yard? 3 or 6 months?

    Also, how old of a boat do you typically see the depreciation flat line? Obviously a 2018 will loose a good 25% the first year, and continues the trend lowering each year. A 2006 86S for lets say 900k should be relatively done with its deprecation run, I'd hope.
  4. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    Like everyone has said, you will increase the depreciation run by essentially expensing any work you put into it. If you do a $1M refit, your going to see most of that going down the drain. It’s probably only worth it if you plan to keep it for some time and if that incremental expense is worth it for your enjoyment versus the effect on resell at the end.
  5. LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    Makes sense. In the scenario of minimal upgrades, what can one expect of depreciation? Just trying to understand when it really starts to slow down. Obviously a 1998 and a 1997 yacht have almost no depreciation between the years. So looking at a 2006 yacht, is it relatively at the end of it's depreciation run?
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I d say a 2006 will still be depreciating quite a bit although it depends on how well maintained the boat is

    It s not just the depreciation. Yes at some point the curve looks better but the maintenance costs go up so your savings on depreciation are offset by higher maintenance. By 10 years old many components are starting to fail. An air con compressor here, a frequency drive there... a watermaker pump... a davit... the gel coat needs buffing every few months and then it s burned up. The list goes on

    The key to a successful interior redo is to find the right people. If you go to yard and say redo the interior it s going to cost you three time what it could
  7. LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    Gotcha. If you find the right surveyor & mechanic, would you be able to accurately pinpoint soon to be failing components, etc so you have a plan in place and an estimated cost of the next few years? Seems like some people are taken by surprise on failures, is there a way to minimize this?
  8. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Does anyone fine this an odd post??
  9. LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    Just a man who wants a boat and has a lot of questions. Don't learn if ya don't ask.
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Yes. Not saying it's not legitimate. However, it follows the pattern of first time boaters and Azimut and loving them in spite of any other comments. Clearly, Marine Max's success with the line depends on a lot of sales to persons lacking experience. Now, that's not to say they don't get any repeat customers. Just easy to fall in love with the sales pitch and styling without too much questioning.

    Unfortunately, LukeBrick is talking about financing rehab of one and headed down a path that can lead to major financial loss. There's not an Azimut in the world I would spend a million dollars on renovating. There's been mention of recovering 50% but I'd put it more like a 15-20% payback and that done simply because of aesthetic preference less than that.

    Worst thing in the world for a used boat buyer is falling deeply in love with a boat before having all the information.
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    And/Or ignoring all the information offered to him...
  12. LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    Hey man, thanks for the post. Regarding financing, I'm a big believer against it for the average person, and debt is an awful thing to carry around. However, there are some cases were your able to pay cash for it many times over, but the free capital from not being tied up is highly valuable to some businessmen.

    Boats are toys and you are going to be underwater either way, however, you do want you minimize your losses so that's why I was asking about renovations.

    I understand this forum is filled with experienced captains and sailors, but I'm not one so pardon my stupid questions or ignorance. I'm trying to learn the best I can.

    My attraction to Azimut is purely from a visual/looks standpoint, and price. The fact I can pickup a 86' for around 1M and customize her is appealing to me. I've looked at the other brands mentioned here, and were not impressed. I'm no mechanic by any means, so there is of course more than just looks to a yacht. But I'm not sure which ones are good and aren't mechanically sound.

    For example, Pershing is a much more expensive yacht for a similar Mut size, and I've never liked the interior very much, so a refit would be required. It's cheap monotone wood throughout the boat, and looks slapped together.

    The only yacht I've found to be in a similar price range with a decent look is the Sunseekers.

    AB, Lazarra, Leopard, whatever brand has been mentioned here I'm not a fan. Either their priced high, not enough market share for options, or the exterior isn't that appealing.

    All these brands make nice 2018 yachts, so they've caught up pretty well. However, when looking at affordable 2006-2010 yachts many are looking old & aged, while Azimut still looks pretty slick.

    I'm by no means set on a certain build, and have never visited a MarineMax in my life hehe, so their salesperson has had no affect. Just good attracted by good looking yachts in which I have no mechanical knowledge of.

    People have said Mut's are bad, and it seems you don't like them as well. However, someone saying they have mechanical issues is a very broad term from a door hinge to a blown engine, and some resources would be fantastic, or at the least an explanation as to why they are a bad proposition.

    I appreciate all the advice given on this forum, and will continue to do so. If you have any resources, tips, or advice on which yachts to look at instead of Azimut, or thoughts on this post let me know. Cheers.
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Falling in love simply based on looks is extremely dangerous.

    I don't dislike the Azimut boats as much as some here.

    The main reason I would never buy a new Azimut in the US is their warranty program which is completely handled by Marine Max.

    As to used, they sell for less and they're resell for less. Many never got all the issues remedied and so still carry them. The lack of quality control in manufacturing and in dealer service still plagues the older boats. As to the issues people here report, it's just workmanship, things like plumbing, wiring, engine room layout. Quality of build throughout. Perhaps, if you find one that passes a survey with flying colors, you'll be the exception. However, you're dismissing every other boat based simply on how they're decorated. My wife and I are as much enthralled by appearance of things we're buying too, but appearance has been well down the line in our priorities on boats.

    We own two Riva's, purchased new. Not crazy about the interior colors of either, but love the boats. Bought them off the shelf.
  14. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    I ran a two hour leg in 4-6' averaging 35 knots in an 86S. It topped out near 45 knots. That's flying in an 86' boat! One of the best riding offshore hulls I've been on, but that's to be expected in a near 90-foot boat with hullform derived from offshore racing. The boat ran solid and tight so I can't say anything negative about the laminate or build integrity, although YF has a couple of threads showcasing some lamination issues a few years ago. The real problems seem to be access to systems, a lack of continuity between builds and sourcing components. Still, the 86S is a lot of boat for 1M.

    Have you looked at the Cheoy Lee? They make a 76' and an 87' express. Here's a review of the 76" Alpha with a flybridge...

    https://www.yachtforums.com/review/cheoy-lee-76-alpha-flybridge.20284/

    Below are pics of the CL Alpha 76' and the 87' express...

    Attached Files:

  15. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    I think going brand specific in this statement is very wrong.
    Why would I spend the same money say on a Sunseeker. Squeekers all need repainting after few years for both hull and deck thanks to gelcoat crazing and hairline cracks in so called delicate areas as the beam of the hardtops, something which for example most Azimut's do not get. A painting in this size is always around 100k.
    Also the big Azimut tend to have shipsides of Awlgrip or similar paint, while Sunseeker tend to be gelcoated which would make repainting also more costly.
    Equipment on both is more or less the same. The refit of the interior in a boat this size will be all money in the sea whatever the make and it will be very much subject to taste.
    Even when you change engines your boat does not become more expensive or newer, it just is the most desired of the curve but do not expect to get your engine money back.
    It will never happen. Boats are not like classic cars. You can get some money back with charter but even that is a difficult fish and very much subject to location.
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I went brand specific only because he was speaking of a specific brand. For the record, not a Sunseeker I'd spend that on either.
  17. LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    Thanks, I'll take a look.