Click for Lurssen Click for Westport Click for Westport Click for Glendinning Click for Abeking

Repower planning for 37 Al Riviera

Discussion in 'Chris Craft Roamer Yacht' started by bolsado, Apr 2, 2010.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. bolsado

    bolsado Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Sacramento
    Salvage-Diesel

    Kiwipushrod-Henning (Kiwi-Aussie banter???) Hope we are all having fun and learning. No offense given in below-good humor intended.

    I said to myself I was going to avoid the $ discussion for a while as it seems folks are never quite willing to fork out the truth for the cash they actually forked out in these endeavors. Anyway Kiwi asked for your calculator, heck give me your checkbook/credit card and you will get no argument from me on a diesel conversion.

    There quite a few 37 foot Roamers out there on the web now and I think I may have seen a diesel or 2 40' and under but dont recall specifically. I think if this were a turn key full restoration the value would be $45-50K tops. There is one listed on Lake Minnetonka for 2 years now and he has dropped from $100K to $85K and I hope he is really not expecting the phone to ring. I am sure he has $100K plus in the resto. If your serious about a Roamer diesel repower buy a forty plus footer with them already in. IMHO recreational under 40' gas or diesel does not really matter except to the offshore & bluewater crowd which is why most OEMs are gas.

    For me total hull-mechanical-interior-exterior investment cannot exceed $50K with an assumed 10 year useful life.

    Repower budget from my wallet $18-20K max, fully dressed engine, ex manifolds, cooling and trannies as well ie whole ball of wax. Push the upper end of that and there goes an interior/exterior treatment which resembles formica and roller brush and not the Homer treatment.

    What Kiwi has hinted at is the SBC is the choice of the circle track and drag racer circuit and has so much flexibility that if even if you want to go super exotic you could do 4 SBCs for price of the most basic diesel conv and that might actually match to the useful life of diesel. My current set up has close to 1600hrs on a previous rebuild and seem ok to just keep plugging away till they crap out.

    I just drove my International 4400 210HP DT466 diesel "roamer hauler" truck halfway across the country empty, approx 10MPG when light on the accelerator (65 MPH or less), avg $3.00/gal about .10 cents more than gas. Love that turbo whine. Get into that throttle above 65 or even the smallest hill 3-5 mpg. I got the truck for $13K, 430K miles, I think 1600 hrs. You can buy a lot of gas for a diesel fuel consumption payback.

    For you 427 fans I have a 72 F100 w/390 reman ($2500) which gets about the same MPG and a lot more HP. Only difference is that puny little tank behind the front seat only gets you about 150 mi down the road vs the twin tanks on the roamer hauler cost $250 to fill a pop. Dont say I dont love FOMOCO, I just cant justify it anymore. I also have a 61 Chysler Newport w/361 and it flat out is a torqer. If you really want to be different go the MOPAR route like the sister Al crusiers from Marinette.

    Can any you diesel guys out there, pick up another truck, take those motors out and put them in my boat, hook it all up to move the boat forward @ 40 knots max, 25-30 knots cruise, keep ability to fuel up at any big fresh water lake for under $20K. Maybe you could get a couple grand "Salvage" for the rest of the truck. If you can, or do a similar setup you got my business. There are other diesel issues but mainily its budget and relative simplicity. So as I stated in initial thread diesel is out of the question unless one can pony up to the plate on those figures.

    RE Salvage

    Yes here means junkyard/bone yard engine in a van or your buddies 82 suburban been sitting for 5-10 years in the weeds you pick up for $500 bucks. You really dont know what condition it is in and your going to spend a few hundred just to find out then do all the machine work etc...but it is "seasoned" your just not quite sure if its medium rare or burnt crisp.

    The astute engine guys will understand the performance aftermarket guys like Dart with their own SBC engine block new castings are "seasoned" before the build up. The neophyte like me does not know what they actually do to heat them up and make them "better" but I'll drink the Kool aid that it really makes a difference. Personally I think its like $500 bucks for undercoating from the dealer. If I could go cafeteria style I would skip it.

    IMHO, I beg to differ on the quality SBC rebuild price of $15K (I assume you r talking one engine only, or about right for two complete turn key motors). These short/long block combos are built with better bottom end components to handle the awesome HP (800-1000) power guys are getting out of these. Couple that with a low compression set up and I would expect one has a more durable setup compared to the over the counter mercruiser/crusader set and and certainly more than your mass rebuilders. A Dart "top end"-short block combo (kinda a long block plus) is about $4500-5500. Add cam, carb, ex, cooling, pump, ign etc... $2500-3500. I need some $ left over for trans & electrical and plumbing.

    I dont want to raise the ire of the forum net nannies but check out chevy hi performance magazine engine builds and Dart @ dartheads dot com. By these guys real world dyno tests this is pretty basic stuff by racing standards.

    Concept here is HP range 400-450, TQ range 425-500, runs on regular gas, fuel at any marine dock in the states, better performance HP/TQ per dollar than I can buy turnkey over the counter, $8-9K or less each motor, capable of working with applicable marine trannies or pick up phone and order a fully dressed 383 from crusader or the big GM. I dont know if I can get there yet, but its looking real good, either way, moving forward, strictly gas, strictly SBC for me.

    Attached Files:

  2. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    940
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL
    I spent most of the first 30 years of my life building and racing SBCs in NHRA, IHRA and IMSA cars on gasoline, methanol and nitromethane. $15,000 to build one to spec is an easy task. Crankshaft, $2500, set of high quality rods, another $2500. These are your primary load bearing parts. You can cheap out on them if you want, but remember, a racing engine built properly sees less than 100 hrs between overhauls. When you use quality parts, you get to reuse them. When you use cheap components, they don't make the season which is why everybody racing has multiple engines.

    Most of the engines you see advertised in the price range you are talking about aren't really competition engines. They are for guys building "Street Machines". They will see approximately 6 minutes of competition use per year, most of the rest of the time they spend around 12%-20% load and have an average life span of 3 years if that before they get another modification done to them at which time anybody with any sense tosses in a new set of bearings in the bottom end. Will a $5000 engine serve your application, sure, just don't over estimate what you are getting.
  3. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    Hudson River
    It's a good thing you're not contemplating rebuilding a set of CC Lincolns for your Roamer, or those Cats mentioned earlier would come out looking relatively cost effective. If you have to put a new crank and pistons in one of these MEL engines along with replacing all the parts of the valvetrain you're looking at an easy $15k between them without breaking a higher hp sweat.

    I've got just over $5k with machine work and parts into my land yacht's 430 and only just cleaned up the pistons, crank, valves, and rockers. The parts and machining to replace everything but the block and head castings could have easily doubled that amount. The parts to got into a marine engine basic rebuild would split that difference.

    When buying new gas motors or building solid used gas engines to like-new is equal to the cost of low hours diesels, and chances are you might have to plumb new fuel lines and perhaps replace gas tanks anyway, then the gentlemen above not only make a strong case for diesel, but the diesels begin to make a strong case for themselves.
  4. Kiwipushrod

    Kiwipushrod New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Trempeleau Wisconsin
  5. lacabina

    lacabina Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2004
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    woodstock georgia
    Anodes and Cutlass Bearings

    My tech just informed me that he measured incorrectly for the phenolic cutlass bearings for my 1968 37' Aluminum Riviera. He did the same with the magnesium anodes. The supplier is on back order and I am on the hard. Soliciting suppliers here. Any suggestions?
    Much thanks. I want to go boating.
  6. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,369
    Location:
    My Office
  7. Orestes

    Orestes New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    RI - Cove Heavan Mariina Barrington
    Help

    I consider repowering my 35 Steel Roamer

    Currently I have
    two (2) Chris Crafts, inboards, eight (8) cylinders, in a "V8" configuration (reversed flywheel etc)
    Horse Power: 185
    Model No.: 283RH/LH25
    Serial No(s).: Port-815984 / Starboard-815942 CID: 283
    Transmission Drive Type: Paragon Model No: Unknown
    Serial No(s).: Port-4K7264 / Starboard-4K7134 Gear Ratio: Unknown
    Cooling System: Raw water cooled heat exchanger with wet exhaust

    Not sure what options I have with diesel or gas to fit the space
    please name names and budget estimates
    My local mechnics change their mind every 30 seconds!

    Much appreciation.
    Orestes
    :mad: :confused:
  8. bolsado

    bolsado Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Sacramento
    KISS Principle

    You see a lot of heated discussion in the above threads all in good spirit and from those like myself who want something different or special.

    Bottom line though is replace what you have in kind ( I assume they are GM V8s) with new fully dressed crate motors from crusader. The new motors will more than double your hp and torque figures and allow the most minimal hook up modifications and get you back in the water fastest and cheapest and provide you with another 10-20 years of engine life with a warranty from a reputable outfit.

    Cost should be around $3,500-4,000 per motor plus installation.

    It costs money to be different. KISS=Keep it simple s!@*$# as the saying goes.

    best of luck and let us know details as you progress. Ill be doing mine soon.
  9. Orestes

    Orestes New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    RI - Cove Heavan Mariina Barrington
    Much Appreciation

    Appreciated - great help

    At least I know where I stand
    Do I keep my paragon transmissions or I have to buy new ones too?

    Cordially
    Orestes:)
  10. bolsado

    bolsado Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Sacramento
    paragons

    O,

    If you have the same bolt pattern on your replacement blocks (most GM small block chevy=SBC are the same) you should not need to. You havent yet said if you have ford or chevys though.

    Go to the crusader website and talk to their tech reps and they can walk you through most of it vs your favorite marina mechanic.

    You should double triple check as with all things and you should also rebuild the paragons at the same time you do the repower.

    Bolsado
  11. Orestes

    Orestes New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    RI - Cove Heavan Mariina Barrington
    Much Appreciation

    Again thank you for your straight forward answers

    Orestes
  12. fantasymaker

    fantasymaker New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    IL
    What about repowering with a SINGLE 500 Hp Diesel?
    What would the effect on speed and range be?
    Are there power dividers so I could keep the twin props?
  13. Laurence

    Laurence Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    248
    Location:
    Chattanooga TN
    Single engine, twin props

    Check with Superior Gear Company in Stockton, Missouri who teamed up with Mastry Marine in Florida to do this. The system is called "Gear Up". There was an article in Southern Boating magazine on this. Cost about $7500 up to 500 hp.
  14. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,369
    Location:
    My Office