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Publishing of original concept designs?

Discussion in 'Yacht Designers Discussion' started by BjornS, Jun 8, 2009.

  1. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Hi-jacked? No just asking questions and posing situations to keep the discussion going. I find this thread interesting and amusing. It got you to write a lengthy tome so it must be working. ;)

    When someone says they have the material to support their contention then I don't think it is unreasonable to ask to see it. Especially when that material holds the answer to the question that started the thread. Why is that "boring and pointless" when it is the core of this discussion?


    Really? Has that happened? you just repeated what others have said, can you show where this has happened?

    Have you been reading the entire thread? I am not confused about it. There is a huge difference between a "design package" and a pretty picture but several designers here say otherwise. I take the position that a pretty picture is just that, it is not a design from which a vessel can be built and therefore has no protection beyond that which exists for any other pretty picture.
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Intellectual Property


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    Australia: A Selection Of The Best Copyright Cases Of 2007
    Related Information

    Intellectual Property
    Copyright


    03 April 2008
    Article by Chris Bevitt
    Copyright/Design Overlap: Yacht plugs as works of artistic craftsmanship?
    Burge v Swarbrick [2007] HCA 17

    Mr Swarbrick has designed numerous yachts including a 30 foot sports boat marketed as the “JS 9000” in Australia.

    Boldgold Investments manufactured competitive boats to the JS 9000 using the hull and deck mouldings developed for the JS 9000. These mouldings had been obtained (in disputed circumstances) by two former employees of Mr Swarbrick and applied in the competitive Boldgold business.

    Mr Swarbrick had not registered the design of the mouldings or the plug used to create the mouldings under the Designs Act 1906. He asserted that the design for the plug and the mouldings were “works of artistic craftsmanship” and therefore protected under Australian copyright law. If Mr Swarbrick’s argument failed, he would have no protection due to the provisions in the Copyright Act 1968 removing copyright protection for items registrable as designs (other than works of artistic craftsmanship). The removal of copyright protection applies whether or not the item is in fact registered as a design.

    The matter came before the High Court on appeal. The High Court held that whether an item is a work of artistic craftsmanship “does not turn on assessing the beauty or aesthetic appeal of [the] work or on assessing any harmony between its visual appeal and its utility. The determination turns on assessing the extent to which the particular work’s artistic expression, in its form, is unconstrained by functional considerations.”

    The High Court concluded that Mr Swarbrick’s design was substantially dictated by functional considerations, namely to meet the requirements of the design brief for a well mannered, easily balanced boat that was fast by contemporary standards. The aesthetic appeal of the look of the resulting sports boat was a secondary concern.

    It followed that the design of the plug (and the derivative moulds) was held not to constitute a work of artistic craftsmanship for the purposes of attracting copyright protection. Mr Swarbrick therefore had neither copyright protection (due to the High Court’s conclusion on the work of artistic craftsmanship) nor designs protection (due to his failure to register his design).
  3. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    That is a good example and has some interesting elements re the artistic elements.

    The core issue of that case was addressed earlier in the thread as it is one of the reasons US law now protects the design of the hull itself. The practice of stealing the design as described in the case you referenced is called "hull splashing" and is far different from using a pretty picture as inspiration to design a new boat.

    http://www.copyright.gov/vessels/
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Although this thread is fairly dry and drawn out it's also quite educational. Could we lose the term "pretty" picture so the thread loses the sarcastic note and sticks more closely to the important points. Besides, some of the designs I've seen here and elsewhere are anything but "pretty" IMHO.:rolleyes:
  5. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Fair enough. I intentionally used that term to pull the renderings down from the vaulted heights to which some purchasers of yacht design software hold their computer creations.

    I will subsitute the word "artistic" and leave the interpretation of beauty to individual preference.
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Caught that. Thanks.:) From the case cited and a few others I looked over I think the bottom line is that "artistic craftsmanship" technically covers the designer, but he'd be well advised to register the designs anyway before letting them out to the public. Once it goes to court it comes down to the perception of the individual judge handling the case as to what is "artistic" and what is "functional".
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    The short answer is NO! And some people would just rather steal than think or work. That's been evidenced on this Forum several times when the same tired old designs are tweaked a little, painted a different color and presented, by artists who think they are designers, to collective yawns.
  8. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    I understand that none of those allegations ever made it to court. Some were settled because with what has to be a 95 percent profit margin they had enough money to win the battle of lawyers. Some of that battle was based on the use of the term "picnic boat" and at least one of the alleged "copycats" told them to pack sand and nothing happened.

    I will research that one because there are a lot of "picnic boats" running around these days.
  9. CODOG

    CODOG Senior Member

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    I was going to post some pictures of plywood Turkish clones of a Ferretti, Azimut, Sunseeker, Pershing and Farline etc from the Akasia brokerage site just to add some visual filler...but the photos have Akasia plastered all over them and I didn't want to breach their copyright ;)
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Now THAT'S funny!:D
  11. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Speaking of "A" The following quote is from Maritime Reporter and Engineering News today:

    "With its unique bow design, which is hauntingly familiar in look to the Advanced Electric Ship Demonstrator (AESD), Sea Jet, a 133-ft. U.S. Navy test vessel, A reportedly makes almost no splash at 24 knots."

    DDG1000.jpg A.jpg

    ddx-seajet-dn-sd-051130-N-7676w-081-s.jpg


    This is the demonstrator for the DDG-1000 program the US Navy developed beginning in the early 1990s. It makes one wonder if A comes before D in the design lexicon doesn't it?
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2009
  12. vernetluc

    vernetluc New Member

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    Good research Marmot! I had never seen this design! I surely makes my statement fall short of a good axample:eek:
    It does not, however, mean that copying bluntly a well known, very original "looking" design will not get reprobated. This is actually the core of the discussion, and not if there has been legal action or not for "copyright infringement" on boat design (I am French: we do run into a lawyer's office for sexual harassment every time someone give us a a smile;) !). What matters is if it will serve a designer - or the contrary - to obviously copy someone's else work, and how it will be judged, not necesssarily by a court but by his peers.
    Hence the apparent rarity of the court sentences you are asking to produce on that matter (and we've got other things to do...!)
  13. vernetluc

    vernetluc New Member

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    Hi NYCAP,
    "....on this Forum....by artists who think they are designers"....
    That does not mean by Designers! Then your "short answer" becomes wrong.
    I have personally, and on a long career, never seen any blatant copy from a real designer.... but many boats that all follow the same fashion trend, hence becoming all of them remarkably similar:rolleyes: !
    Ah, the good old times when we used to walk along the wharfs looking at the yachts: all of them with their character, their little details, their personality.... Now, if the Harbour Master moves you boat to another berth, you cannot find it anymore but by searching for "it's" name on the transom!!!
  14. vernetluc

    vernetluc New Member

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    Sorry K1W1: It just confirms what I say!
    Difference has to be made between simply placing a copyright mark, which just and only states the ID of the (eventual) copyright owner, not even compulsorily, and the registration at the Copyright Office, which is the condition for a work to become Copyrighted.
    However, the funny thing seems to be (...?) that to do NOT put a sign may prevent you from claiming your right....I don't know...and don't care much either: I do not put any on my work! I sign plans, and eventually puts my Client's mark on pictures/ renders;) .
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    We are privileged to have several very talented designers who contribute here. Then there are a couple of others who draw well or run programs well but lack original ideas. Your "Ah, the good old days" sentence made my old heart skip a beat. Wasn't it grand?
    Marmot, I'd seen pics of the Sea Jet, but never side by side with A. M/Y A doesn't look quite so original any more. Good catch. (I still think it's very cool though).
  16. vernetluc

    vernetluc New Member

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    Sure! Quite afew! and I no-way deny their value and originality!
    There are "some others', though....:rolleyes:
    That's the world!
    Cheers
    Luc
    P.S.: Hey, shouldn't you be sleeping, by now?
  17. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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  18. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    I would suggest that the DDG-1000 project didn't start a "design trend." How one might describe the "hauntingly familiar" resemblance might be lighting a short fuze.

    You have to admit that the pictures and the date that the DDG-1000 project began does beg the question that no one dare to ask doesn't it?

    It is rather amusing given the strong opinions stated by other designers and stylists regarding the sanctity of their work and their claims of "artwork" having full design protection.
  19. Arniev

    Arniev Senior Member

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    Hi, Lars!
    Whatever happened to that issue involving a Yacht Designer that supposedly copied one of your designs?
    Arnie
    :)
  20. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    See post #97.

    Are there US government spies in Eurpean yacht design offices, or have American defence contractors morphed into yachting "trend setters?"

    It sure looks to me like somebody grabbed something. So who is going to sue whom in this case? It also looks like stealing designs could be a great career move.