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Looking to buy a Sportfish/Convertable

Discussion in 'General Sportfish Discussion' started by craigsduc, May 4, 2011.

  1. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Did we just hi jack the OPs thread?? He sounds like he is going in completely the wrong direction, to me, and could really benefit from this forum's advice.
  2. craigsduc

    craigsduc New Member

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    Yeah....what about me???:( Thats OK as I am still reading the posts and advice. I feel for the owner of the 1271 Bert and know how boats can be a financial nightmare and a seemingly empty hole to pour money into. No, I didnt just fall off the turnip truck but obviously there are members out there with decades more experience owning boats than I. Regarding my making a mistake going to contract without seeing the boat, it is only because I live in So Cal and flying out 2500 miles to see a boat that has an asking price of $189K makes me find out ahead of time if the seller WILL sell that boat for my budget in the event I elect to go forward after the initial physical inspection. I have looked at many East coast boats over the last few years and try to look at quite a few potential boats while there. I had gone to contract on one boat in almost every instance knowing if it stood tall and passed all inspections once out there, I could have bought the boat for a number that was acceptable. I passed on every boat to date due to physical inspections or the results of surveys after acceptable physical inspections so I fully understand the process and the importance of in depth unbiased based surveys by persons not recommended by the seller or his agent. I plan to do just that this time also. Bob Seeger is the broker on ALKON which is the 1980 55 in Sarasota. I feel he is representing the boat with integrity, did not require me to actually put the offer down in writting before going to the seller, and is not requiring a check in hand prior to seeing the boat even though we have an accepted offer and signed contract subject to PI, ST, and surveys.......It is the only 55 I have looked on line at that seems to fit what I am looking for. As the owner ( the only owner of this boat bought originally from Hansen Marine in Dec, 1981 ) will be there and has every document available regarding everything he has ever done to the boat to date, it simply is a boat I would like to at least look at seriously. Yes, I would like a REAL GUY to look at it too....perhaps in advance. There is no question that would be OK with the seller or Bob Seeger. Anyone you guys know I could hire to do that? It is a very very good idea and one I would like to carry out soon. If I need to extend the contract period, I know it will not be a problem. Regarding the statement that I am already at a disadvantage, I disagree as I know the reality of just how critical I am regarding actually BUYING a boat. Yes, I am genuinely interested in this boat but........I have a long way to go before saying " I DO "!............. Regarding other boats, there are mid ninety 54 hatteras also but they have 1292s which is an engine series I have been cautioned away from many times. I almost bought a 95 Hat 54 with 3412 Cs 3 years ago that surveyed very well but our finances fell apart at the end. That boat was in the mid 5s then and we have since elected to spend much less so things do happen for reasons some times. I have talked to owners of older 1271 boats and have been told that they were a joy to own and were reasonably affordable. I know the cost to rebuild and know "rebuilts" or " low original" hour motors can grenade the first time out too. I know many items on these 32 VDC motors are expensive but I also know MTU or MAN engines command lots of Euro based dollars for parts too! I realize maintaining 370, 450, QSMs or ? Cummins motors would be much more manageable to own and buying a smaller boat with these is definitely something I would consider. I also know a 55 ft boat has more systems and bigger more expensive systems than mid 40ft boats. Thats why a Riviera 43 ( or smaller Viking, Bertram, Hat, ) are boats I am also considering and without a doubt would be more manageable to own and keep there. Its just that many are in the mid 2s or 3s and I would want to own 50 % of them. To me, that would be the prefect scenario especially if the owner is meticulous like I am and has ethics. I know, I know.......I,m dreaming but we all know there are still ethically sound and honestly good people out there still that own boats and simply do not use them enough in this tough economy to justify owning them.....at least 100 %. Many have not even considered co owning a boat as the concept to many seems not feasible. I have been involved in 3 partnerships so far on boats and have owned 100 % on some also. The partnerships worked fine. So much so that I actually proposed putting together partnerships on boats many years ago when it was unheard of and was not acceptable by most. Brokers told me it would never work!! Well, I,m happy to say they were wrong as indicated by actual businesses in place ( Galati, Sunseeker, etc ) that have created substancial pertnerships. The secret is having either two partners that both understand the costs and responsibilities of owning boats and dont mind handling personally all aspects of ownership, or having an uniterested 3rd party involved to handle it professionally. Something breaks, 50 % each. Maintenance, slip, insurance, etc, 50 %.......Hiring a 3rd uninterested entity to clean, refuel, handle everything relating to physically keeping the boat in order is an option that sometimes works if both owners opt for not doing it themselves. Anyway, getting a bit off "post " but the point is, I would really like to find " that guy " that we could co own a nice newer boat with in Florida and the Bahamas.

    If you know of someone, let me know. In the meantime though, I do plan on going through with at least giving the 1980 55 in Sarasota a look with someone down there that can really look at it with me...perhaps in advance.

    Thanks again for the advise from all concerned. I am listening!
  3. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    Partnerships can be fine ... I was a member of a very successful airplane partnership ... we all remain very good friends.

    If this is the original owner of the Hatteras, that is amazing and almost unheard of for that long a period of ownership. Incredible really. If he has kept detailed records, it would be interesting to see how much maintenance was required over all those years.

    With regard to recourse for the 12V71 overhaul that failed. Yes, if there were no recourse at all, the fraud would be rampant. The shop that overhauled the engine is Saunders Yachtworks of Orange Beach, AL. They will have their day in court.
  4. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    I took a look at the boat you are talking about online ... I see what you mean ... she is clean, meticulous OCD owner for sure. I don't see the mention of 1000 on the engines. Since no overhaul is mentioned, my first thought is .. original. Definitely one to look at. Good luck with that.

    Mike
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    If any boat had 1,000 original hours on it in 30 years I'd run, not walk, away from it. Houses on the Mississippi do more moving.
  6. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    I thought the OP had mentioned 1000 SMOH but I didn't see that mentioned in the For Sale add on the Sarasota Hatteras 55 for $185k - original owner. I didn't see any mention of the number of hours on this boat/engines.

    Mike
  7. craigsduc

    craigsduc New Member

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    The broker explained the year the owner completely rebuilt both engines at about 1000 hrs since. Not sure of the hours on the boat at the time though. All receipt are with the boat with full documentation. I feel you can see now at least why it is worth a serious look. There is one here in So Cal ( 1987 ) with 400 hrs smoh at $ 399K ask. Yes, its worth more as it is 6 years newer and it is here. Not sure what it is truly worth but it does seem the 81 is fair at $ 150K
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I had asked if it was SMOH. He has now confirmed that. Now the boat sounds more interesting.
  9. SHAZAM

    SHAZAM Senior Member

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    So you passed up the near mint fully refitted and updated 52 with MAN's for this 55?
  10. craigsduc

    craigsduc New Member

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    If you are referring to " The Shark ", I did call about it and I may go see it while in Fla. Just not sure about a 48 into a 52 nor am I sure about Mans. If it is a different boat you are referring to, let me know. I am simply flying in this week to really look hard at Alkon in Sarasota. I would really like to look at some smaller potentials as well as I realize to maintain a 55 will not be very inexpensive.
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I am familiar with the Shark and have seen it at Sands Harbor Marina for the last several years. It is in good condition and with the extension run's like a raped ape and is very fast with the 1050 MAN's. According to people I've talked to the extension makes the hull a lot faster. The cockpit is very very large.
  12. SHAZAM

    SHAZAM Senior Member

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    Remember telling us about this boat?
  13. craigsduc

    craigsduc New Member

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    Oh I do remember Bubba. I was unable to buy it but it did sell shortly there after. I never actually saw the boat but it appeared to be very nice. The Shark was available too at the time but the interior of Bubba was beautiful.

    Oh well, things happen for reasons I suppose as we are now looking at boats for significantly less now.
  14. craigsduc

    craigsduc New Member

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    Well, I have now seen the boat and when Bob Seeger stated it was unlike anything he had ever seen in his career, I believe him. Every hatch, door, panel, etc opens up to expose incredible evidence of meticulous maintenance and up grading. After looking at every aspect of the boat, the only areas needing attention are the headliner which show some evidence of old leaks from the bridge deck above. The electronics are a bit dated but work fine, and there is some old staining on the inside of the salon door teak that has been beautifully varnished over. I am going to meet with the owners tomorrow and plan on going over everything they have done over the last 30 years to the boat. After really looking at her in depth, I am interested in her as I too have never seen anything like her. What looking at her in depth did do though is caution me on what I am getting into. The size of everything is huge and OWNING this boat will not be cheap. I also need to get quoted on insurance too as I am concerned what that will cost me on a 55 in Florida when I have never owned a boat over 44 ft and not in Florida. I had one broker that is selling a 38 Pursuit w tower tell me he thinks I need to allow around $50K to $75K annually to simply own the 55 regardless of shape. If this is true, I feel we need to pass and find a 43 to 45 ft newer SF. If its more like $ 3,000 a month. it might be more acceptable but is concerning me a bit.
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    He's in the right neighborhood. Sorry.
  16. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    I agree. I've run my 1998 Post 50 for the past 12 years - my average annual cost is a little over $50k
  17. jemventures

    jemventures New Member

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    Hi Beau-


    I am also looking at sportfishing boats in the '45 to '55 range and have been doing some planning for the budget. Can you give a rough breakdown of what makes up the big pieces of the $50k for you. Like Insurance is $x, dockage $y, fuel is $z, maintenance, repairs. Just looking for ballparks to validate, or invalidate my thinking. Any info is much appreciated.


    Mike
  18. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Jemventures

    Costs will depend on many factors individual to the owner. For instance, do you have a backyard dock? keeping the boat at a mooring or marina? quality marina vs discount operation? Your travel plans and use? Your sat tv will alone will cost you $1k a year. But my expenses are generally about $12k for summer dock, electric and fees, $6k for winter dockage electric and fees with shrink wrap, $5k for insurance, another $10k for oil changes filters washing and waxing, bottom painting and zincs and general maintenance, and about $8K in fuel and docking fees (probably) higher this year. Then you have to average in one time repair items. For example, one year I had to rebuild one side of an 820 Man which cost $30K , another year it was $10k for a new ez2cy enclosure etc.

    Hope that's helpful
  19. jemventures

    jemventures New Member

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    Beau-

    Very helpful, thanks so much. I do understand the varability based on each owner, but seeing your real estimates for some of the larger items helps. Based on my planned usage I can get a feel and make some adjustments to my ranges for things like fuel and dock costs. Of course the significant repair costs in any one year vs. the next can/will fluctuate significantly but they will certainly be there over several years, just don't know which years. Thanks again.

    Mike
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    $8,000 in fuel qualifies a 50' boat for dockqueen status. I just bought fuel at $4.72 a gallon. That's 1695 gallons (for $8K). At 50gph that's 34 hours of cruising. Of course those figures depend on the boat. I used to run a 60 Sunseeker that burned 106 gph. Can't post that math without the EEK! emoticon. A 51 Bert I ran averaged about 80 gph, a 50 SR averaged about 63gph.