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HRO/Sea Recovery Watermakers

Discussion in 'Watermakers' started by dev0n60, Jul 24, 2012.

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  1. K1W1, Jul 30, 2012
    #81
    K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    That is visible in the first photo( the one on the left) of Post No 66. The format I got them in didn't make for good zooming in.
  2. AMG, Jul 30, 2012
    #82
    AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Hmm, two tiny holes in the box with the silvery plastic visible, is not what I think of when reading your statement; The oil leakage caused the disintegration of the packing material around the 23kg pump and it pounded itself against anything and everything it came in contact with all the way here.

    As long as you can not tell what is wrong with the pump, cosmetic or function-wise, I doubt that any company would replace it.

    I am not defending HRO or the way they have handled this, but without proof of real damage to the product, I can understand their viewpoint.

    I guess this picture is more like the real size?

    Attached Files:

  3. Marmot, Jul 30, 2012
    #83
    Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    What I am confused about is that the manual supplied by AMG earlier references the watermaker you describe and it incorporates the vane pump. It looks like your installed system is nothing like what the manufacturer's manual and parts list describes.

    This doesn't make any sense at all. Is your system as supplied by the manufacturer? Post a link or a scan of your manual if you can.

    Like I wrote earlier, there is something missing.
  4. twnich, Jul 30, 2012
    #84
    twnich

    twnich Member

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    But you didn't spend $2150.00. You had your credit card company retract the funds. You actually paid nothing, except for the shipping. You still have the pump, right? You haven't sent it back, have you?

    You claim the pump is "damaged" (the photos you posted show no obvious external damage) but you seem a bit evasive when asked if you have attempted to operate the pump in the system. Does it work or not? Do you have an operating watermaker or not?

    We all get your unhappiness with your purchase and the perceived lack of customer service. Thank you for alerting the world to the situation. However, you sound a bit obsessed, and frankly, if I were them I wouldn't want your business.

    You got a free pump. Move on.
  5. DavieJones, Jul 30, 2012
    #85
    DavieJones

    DavieJones New Member

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    Im in the market for a watermaker and I quite like sea recovery brand as a cruising mate of mine has one fitted and swears by it. So as any consumer would, I did a internet search for reviews of sea recovery and this was top of the list. However I am unsure what this thread is about?? Someone that gets free pumps and still cannot stop complaining?? However it is all quite entertaining and worth a laugh. If I buy now can I get a free pump in ten years time?
  6. Old Phart, Jul 30, 2012
    #86
    Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    Let's hope that 10 years from now a YouTube vid is not circulating the Internet with you waving your hands like a madman, whilst you swear at your beloved watermaker.

    Now, that would be worth a laugh. :D
  7. dev0n60, Jul 30, 2012
    #87
    dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    HI Marmot;
    The HRO Sea Recovery Seafari Escape 200SEM system manual is 160 pages PDF we scanned page by page by us (Sea Recovery did not have their own pdf manuals). I will browse and try and find an excerpt for you. I'll try and upload later.
  8. dev0n60, Jul 30, 2012
    #88
    dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Did you read the original post?
  9. dev0n60, Jul 30, 2012
    #89
    dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Please read the answers already provided in previous posts.
    Basically: The NEW pump we ordered arrived a mess. Indisputable >> Sea Recovery would not exchange it (did not want it back) >> Sea Recovery refused to refund >> Credit Card company forces Sea Recovery to refund >> it is sitting in a pile on a workbench on land.... do you want it?

    Remember: Sea Recovery Sold systems that were doomed to fail from the very start because of the inappropriate diaphragm pumps supplied. This is what started the fiasco.

    If it seems like the thread is getting long it is because we keep answering questions or responding to posters like yourself.

    To repeat what we have written several time already: the original goal of the our post was to let people know and to find a work-around using non-searecovery supplied components.
    The forum has been great and we have accomplished what we have set out to do: I have posted this all before above
    The rest of this debate is starting to get weird... and personal...
    We have not done this sort of online thing before. It is a sign of the times I suppose. Let us just say it easy to bash someone anonymously, to cast doubts or even ridicule.
    We have not posted anything about Sea Recovery that is not true and Danfoss Sea Recovery (who have posted earlier) know exactly who is writing about them. It is not slander if it is true. Have not heard again from Danfoss....
    So if you or others want to take your chances with this company... go for it. And Good luck. We HAVE moved on!
  10. dev0n60, Jul 30, 2012
    #90
    dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Clearly AMG you are not familiar with the machine otherwise you would know about the size of the holes: each corresponds to the ports on the pump. You should do some of your research and find out the size before posting something you are just guessing at. 23 kg of machine perforated the heavy cardboard. How much force does that take?
    Remember, Sea Recovery stood to lose nothing by exchanging it if nothing was truly wrong. All other debate aside, I sincerely doubt that you would accepted this parcel if it had happened to you. It is a silly debate and off the topic.
    The point is Sea Recovery actions.... not ours....for the reasons previously posted
  11. Kafue, Jul 30, 2012
    #91
    Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Always 3 sides to a disagreement, only one is the truth. Not saying anyone is purposely lying, just some info maybe inconvenient.

    I do sympathise with you Dev0n60.
    People who live in the US & Europe consider FedEx a NOUN!
    In 2 of the 3 continents I have lived, just to receive a package was a relief never mind a few scratches.
    When I received heavy or semi delicate equipment from the US lately for my boat, I hadn’t considered blaming the supplier if it was busted up, until now, maybe the shipping company and even then, hell, it’s a long way Downunder. I still have a new compressor to install that I wonder about.
    When I queried the credit card payment you made and where the pump was now, it was with the thought that maybe it’s time to make a deal with Danfoss/Sea Recovery, they probably were insured, you keep the pump, repair if needed, paint a smiley face on it, call it “WILSON” and of you go.

    Sure, it still leaves a few important questions for Danfoss/Sea Recovery, who I notice only stayed on the Forum long enough to muddy the water and make your story sound questionable, then………silence!
    He should join the lawyer we recently had on the Lazarra thread, they make a good team.
    Danfoss/Sea Recovery replaced the old diaphragm pump with a recon one, not new, plus according to the experts, a CAT hydraulic pump is the best to have or the same problem recurs.
    Come on Danfoss, what about the two pump policy we hear about?
    What about the numerous posts I have read about expensive and unreliable Touchscreens? These are posts from Pascal and other Senior Members!
    If you do stand 100% behind your customers, well you are in the perfect position to stick a boot up the backside of a customer who, according to you, is in the wrong? Yet you give no real FACTS!
    If Sea Recovery is really a World Wide company offering worldwide service, then why didn’t the New Zealand branch supply the replacement pump off THEIR shelf and get another shipped (just in case?)

    Whether we have all the facts or not regarding the past years and all the emails and insults etc., IMHO, Dev0n60 has been sincere, taken some fire very politely and HAD PAID for the latest pump, which arrived in an unsatisfactory condition in his, and others opinion on this forum, when in fact it should have been supplied by the NZ dealer in the first instance.
    BTW: Davy Jones, I notice you are a marine engineer, any connection with Sea Recovery? Just asking.
  12. AMG, Jul 30, 2012
    #92
    AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    You have the right to give your story in your own wording, but it would have been better to be more clear of what has really happened already in your first post.

    We have now learned that you purchased the watermaker already in 2003 including this diaphragm pump. Then you installed it in 2007 and got problems with this feed pump in 2009. By then they were no longer delivering your watermaker with this pump, but a vane pump as described in the manual from 2006. You are now saying that HRO knew already when you purchased the watermaker, that the pump only should last 250 hours. Are you sure of this?

    After your first pump failed, you got a "newish" pump for free as good will, long after the warranty did expire. Did you know by then it would also last only 250 hours?

    And finally, you recently purchased the latest version of feed pump, that you now consider damaged in the transport, without even telling what the problem is besides it got the oil leaking out on the outside of the pump. From the pictures it is pretty clear that it was standing with the pump down, at least during the end of the transport, since no oil is seen other than in this area of the box. Nothing indicates that oil has penetrated the motor.

    I am actually surprised that the box did not have more damage and I have a hard time to believe the pump has any functional damage at all. Nevertheless, you have been reimbursed for both the pump and delivery by the paycard company.

    Have I still missed any facts, you are welcome to fill them in, but I am not interested in your previous or ongoing e-mail conversation with the suppliers. I just want to find out what has really happened up to now and leave the emotions out.

    BTW, here is a close-up picture of this type of pump (with another motor attached);

    Attached Files:

  13. AMG, Jul 30, 2012
    #93
    AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    All I know is that DavieJones was posting with a New Zealand IP address...
  14. Old Phart, Jul 30, 2012
    #94
    Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    After reviewing Post # 22 ( http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/155277-post22.html ) of this Thread and taking a quick look at this Thread ( http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/yacht-renderings-plans/8308-lars-modin-design-iv.html ), you may see a need to rethink this Post by you.

    Did it not seem odd that AMG had quick access to a pump for the purpose of an image he posted that is like your FedEx pump?
  15. Capt Ralph, Jul 31, 2012
    #95
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Why yes, currently on board our boat is a HRO, System 9 installed in 1995 and a Rich, Fresca II installed in 1987. Both of witch run over 300 hours still per year each. Yes there have been problems but I fix them with what I have or can get.
    My past experience also includes continued maintenance on Galley Maid, Village marine and systems that started who knows where and look nothing like the original design but still keep making fine water.
    My self and most here in this forum make your 22 years on the water look like a summer camp.
    And No, I'm not going to spend $11000 on a piece of old equipment and let it sit broken. I would try to fix it with what I have or could get, short of stealing it from somebody.
    After your 22 years on the water I would hope you may have learned a thing or two. Boating cost money. Boat parts break. Boating cost more money.
  16. dev0n60, Jul 31, 2012
    #96
    dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Thanks for that Kafue
  17. dev0n60, Jul 31, 2012
    #97
    dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Thank you rcrapps...
    We would not have made it this far, this long without fixing stuff all the time. The Watermaker is just one system on the boat that requires attention.
    We just do not like being taken advantage of.... just like everybody does not like it. Plus, anytime something goes wrong and we use resources on the boat to fix, it brings us that much closer to having to work again :-(
    Boating does cost money... I get the feeling that for some in this forum it not necessarily their own money... there is a world of difference.
    Our point of using the forum was to share the incident(s) so that others could know what they may be getting into by buying Sea Recovery. If it is not your own money you are spending on a system or its components, well I suppose this debate could seem to be 'dribble'...
    From the photos posted above you can see we are handy... we customized this installation... and it works great... for as long as the inappropriate pump holds up.
    Sea Recovery did not supply the system this way. We removed all the cheap aluminum they supplied and the SS mounting brackets were custom made by me to suit. As was the cabinet for the control panel and the control panel itself. We took the Sea Recovery bits off the platform it was supplied and used them where needed in the customized install you see in the photos.
    I am NOT an engineer... but I learn quick
    The occupation in the profile is Volunteer Public Health... this is what we do when not constrained by financial pressure. When we run out of $$ we go back to work where ever we happen to be. It has been going pretty good for 22 years.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2012
  18. dev0n60, Jul 31, 2012
    #98
    dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Thank you for that... you are absolutely right and my mistake...
    AMG would indeed know as he previously posted the photo. As he would know how big the ports are and how heavy the machine is, the post regarding the two tiny holes seems all the more like someone trying to cast doubt. The holes in the cardboard were made by the pump head ports bashing through the heavy cardboard. The ports are 5/8"npt... so OD would be around 3/4" each.
    In our opinion it is a silly debate over inconsequential details.... I seriously doubt AMG would have accepted such a package.
  19. dev0n60, Jul 31, 2012
    #99
    dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Thank you AMG for taking the time.
    Please read again the original post.
    I have written before that to get almost 3 years of experiences and correspondence into these messages on the forum is not possible. You know this and I know it. This is not venue for all that. And yet, in an effort to mislead(?) the forum it seems you want more and more details and insist I am leaving important details out.

    It is a waste of time these details because they distract from the the purpose we posted to begin with: to let others know what they may be getting into if they buy Sea Recovery. If there is an objective purpose to post more information we have done so whenever requested.

    Where do you get that a 'vane pump' was ever part of our system? We never wrote this. Are you trying to mislead the forum??

    The Shurflo Diaphragm pump is the only pump supplied with our system. This supplies the ETD.
    When the FIRST one (pump) started having problems in late 2009 we did not know what was happening. About 200 hours then. After 250 hours we contacted the New Zealand agent Mike Harris in Nov 2010 to find out what was going on. From Him we learned that the diaphragm style pumps were doomed. He said he would contact Sea Recovery and get back to us... we never heard from him....
    We contacted Sea Recovery Mary Day in Dec 2010 directly regarding getting the pump problem sorted. She said she would get back to us... never heard from her either.
    Finally in Feb 2011 we called Sea Recovery and asked to speak with someone other than Mary. We got Chris Rollins.. He confirmed what Mike Harris told us about the bad pumps, told us he would send us another diaphragm pump (free). No apology for the mistake made by his company in supplying customers with pumps they never performed due diligence on.
    Of course, replacing a our supplied diaphragm pump with another doomed diaphragm pump was just pushing the problem back a bit: eventually we needed to sort the problem. 250 hours is just not that much time when the machine is in steady use.
    Sea Recovery would not sell just the rebuild kits for these diaphragm pumps. Chris Rollins wrote us that they were in business to make money and we had to buy an entire new pump when the next one started to fail. We contacted Shurflo directly and were told they could not sell us the parts directly because of agreements they had with Sea Recovery.
    And yes we are sure Sea Recovery knew about the problem with the diaphragm pumps when they sold the system to us. We have researched the matter through our original agent in San Diego and other users of these systems.
    You keep claiming I have left stuff out AMG... what info would you like?
    And yes, the refurbished pump is dead now... about 250 hours later.
    Because of information we have obtained using the forum from members wanting to help us rather than disparage, we have just replaced the failing Shurflo pumps supplied by Sea Recovery with similar pumps that we can order parts for: they are not limited by Sea Recovery's arrangement with the pump manufacturer. The new pump was put in two days ago and all is good. The parts to maintain these pumps over time much, much less expensive than dealing with Sea Recovery.
    So we are sorted and happy with the result. Not so happy at all with the effort it took but thats life sometimes.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2012
  20. AMG, Jul 31, 2012
    #100
    AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    The only one misleading is you. If you had given us a correct picture from the beginning, this thread would have been of help to others. But you wanted drama...
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