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ZF Transmission on a Hatteras 54

Discussion in 'Hatteras Yacht' started by zappiros, Apr 21, 2010.

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  1. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Then explain to me why ZF trannies on Cat 3412e are delivered and certified running at 150 to 160? If that was too cold then they d have fitted something to regulate temp at a higher level...
  2. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    If they're set up perfect, you'll never have to buy a new one....
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Possibly to allow for build-up in the heat exchanger as time goes on, old gear oil that some people neglect to change, etc etc.
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    exactly. or for that day you pick up a bunch of stuff in the strainer, or loose a vane on an impeller, etc... or have to run harder because of weather closing in.

    having some safety margin is good and more important that getting that last 1% efficiency byt running the oil at the absolutely perfect temperature.
  5. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    I don't know, ask ZF or Cat. I don't presume to know more than ZF's engineering department, I just quoted their numbers. If you are looking for some kind of battle, take it to them.

    Besides, last time I looked, 150*F was almost exactly halfway between ZF's minimum of 30*C and max of 105*C. That is called the middle of the range and few technically literate people would call that "too cold."
    :rolleyes:
  6. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    You have a safety margin, that is what the alarm setpoint is for. It tells you to monitor the condition, not panic and call for a tow. If the temperature continues to increase you find out why, or reduce the power going to the gearbox.

    Have you given any thought at all as to why the continuous duty temperature rating is as high as the maximum temperature allowed for pleasure use? It's because at lower loads the system can safely and continuously operate at much higher temperatures.

    As an operator you should be aware of what limitations and warnings mean and not make decisions based on faith, superstition, or what sounded good at the bar.
  7. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    it's not what is sounding good at the bar... it's what i have right here in front of me, here on the boat. it's the ZF operation manual. it states that operating temperature shoudl be between 30 and 90 deg C with the alarm sounding at 95C.

    If i get that temp alarm, it means the tranny is already outside the acceptable range.. it means i have to reduce power or shut down that engine or risk damage.

    simple. again, it's what ZF recommends, not so bar talk or internet chat
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Another reason the operating temperature will be between 30 and 90 deg C oil temp or such a large range, is because the seawater temp cooling the oil will have a large effect on how much heat the gear oil retains. If you're operating in a seawater temp of 40 degrees F, the gear oil will run much cooler then with a seawater temp of 90 degrees F.
  9. zappiros

    zappiros New Member

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    This is some info I collect from a sea trial yesterday...now temperature was on 186 more or less...????? last time went to 194 @ 1950 rpms.......yesterday we were only at 1860 rmps tops...!!!
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Take your transmission cooler, sea-water cooling hoses off and physically look inside the transmission cooler to see if there is a lot of scaling and debris inside. It probably could use a good cleaning or acid wash. What does the other transmission temperature run at?
  11. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    It sounds like your gearbox is having a nice day.

    A gearbox typically absorbs around 3 percent of the power put into it. That means if you put 1000 hp into the front end, you will get 970 out the back and almost all of that 30 hp is converted to heat. In the example given, that is about 1300 BTUs per minute that the cooling system has to remove to stabilize the temperature.

    Put less power into it and it runs cooler, put more power in and it runs hotter.
  12. zappiros

    zappiros New Member

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    Yes exactly, it is running in reverse, I hear that it should run 10 degres more than satarboard side........
  13. zappiros

    zappiros New Member

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    Transmission Specs and Seatrial DATA

    Hello to everyone !!!! Yesterday I went out with boat and take this Sea trial Data and Specs...!!!! thanks to everyone for all your opinions

    TRANSMISSION SPECS
    PORT
    Nominal clutch oil Pressure 15,5
    Applicattion Group P 0.628
    Applicattion Group N/A
    Model BW 255P
    Serial Ser 4634
    Part List PART 308 201 6030
    Ratio 3,45, 1A
    Oil CAP 28 DM3
    Weight 570 KG
    STARBOARD
    Nominal clutch oil Pressure 15,50
    Applicattion Group P 0,406
    Applicattion Group M 0330
    Model BW 255P
    Serial Ser 59700134
    Part List PART 308 201 1114
    Ratio 3,45, 1A
    Oil CAP 29 DM3
    Weight 571 KG

    TRANSMISSION SEA TRIAL DATA
    PORT

    Oil Pressure 244,00
    Time in Minutes / Temp Port
    0,00/ 176
    1,5/ 177
    4,00/ 179
    8,5/ 181
    10,00/ 183
    18,00/ 185
    19,00/ 183
    20,00/ 185
    27,00/ 186
    28,00/ 185
    29,00/ 186
    STARBOARD
    Oil Pressure 257,00
    Time in Minutes / Temp Starboard
    0,00/ 170
    1,5/ 172
    4,00/ 172
    8,5/ 172
    10,00/ 172
    18,00/ 172
    19,00/ 172
    20,00/ 174
    27,00/ 174
    28,00/ 174
    29,00/ 174

    ENGINE DATA ELECTRONIC
    Engine Port
    Load 63
    Oil pressure 61
    Temperature 176
    Rpm's 1860-1870
    Engine Starboard
    Load 66
    Oil pressure 54
    Temperature 177
    Rpm's 1860-1870

    ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION DATA MECHANIC
    Engine PORT

    Oil Pressure 65
    Oil Temperature 223
    Engine Jacket Temperature 205
    Transmission PORT
    Oil Pressure 205
    Temperature 185
    Engine STARBOARD
    Oil Pressure 60
    Oil Temperature 210
    Engine Jacket Temperature 205
    Transmission STARBOARD
    Oil Pressure 250
    Temperature 160

    MEASURE TEMPERATURE AT TRANSMISSION
    PORT

    Water Inlet 105
    Water Outlet 123
    Oil Carter 161
    STARBOARD
    Water Inlet 103
    Water Outlet 114
    Oil Carter 151

    NOTE: This temperature was measured with an electronic thermometer place on surface of fittings and carter.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    NOTE 2: engine reach 194 degrees at 1950 rmps.

    Attached Files:

  14. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Thanks for the confirmation.

    As the old saying goes ... "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." I have found over the years that not everything that looks like a problem is a problem but you can always find someone to tell you the end is near.
  15. zappiros

    zappiros New Member

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    Seawater temperature here goes from 80 F degrees trhu 86 F...............................(27 C trhu 30 C)
  16. zappiros

    zappiros New Member

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    We did that.....cheqck the cooler...no visual trouble there...we did an acid clean for 8 hours and change the oil......it got better...but I do not know if it is in the normal range...I post all the Sea Trial info here.
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    This is true, but you're mis-understanding my post, I never said anything about one particular location. That particular Caterpillar 3412 could be in a vessel in Maine or Canada with a much lower Seawater temp, as it could be in Costa Rica with a higher seawater temp. Sportfish generally travel a great deal. This is why the operating range of the gear oil has such a large acceptible variance from Caterpillar. And if that particular seawater temp was 40 degrees F, and 90 degrees F, the gear oil would run at a totally different temperature.


    As for your temps, they seem fine. The port gear on most or a lot of the vessels I've run tends to run about 10 degrees F hotter. And, with your location and water temp it seems to be running about where it would be expected to run......Although oil pressure seems a bit lower then it should be.....the Port is at 205lbs and starboard is at 250lbs......Do the transmissions have a filter? and has the filter been cleaned recently and oil changed?
  18. zappiros

    zappiros New Member

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    Yeap it has a filter, you clean by turning a small wheel on top of the gearbox...already turn it...and oil is brand new (engines and Transmissions), I changed before Seatrial
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You may want to pull the filter/scraper assembly out, I believe it is 4 bolts on a ZF, and the entire stainless steel drum slides out. Then spray it with brake fluid and hose it off. ZF recommends this every 1,000 hours and that is how the ZF dealer did it, there is also a drain bolt you can remove near where you turn the filter scraper, and you take that out after turning the scraper and alot of the debris will drain out (about a pint of oil drains out of it usually). Look up your model online and it should show the schematic.
  20. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Brake Fluid, or something like CRC Brake Clean?