Click for Mag Bay Click for Cross Click for Abeking Click for JetForums Click for Fendertex

Yacht Engineer - The Role and the Path?

Discussion in 'Licensing & Education' started by mmss1, Feb 8, 2011.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. mmss1

    mmss1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    San Remo
    Well, I did many years ago (before I had the MSc) and what they said was that I first of all needed some sea-time so after working on some bunkerboats I joined an oil tanker as apprentice. Unfortunately it only lasted 2 months since I wasn't really interested in being yelled at for asking when I didn't know, yelled at for doing what I thought was the right thing to do or even being yelled at for actually doing exactly what I was supposed to do!

    At that point I decided (right or wrong) that I'd rather spend my time by decent academics than yelling chiefs and officers and that's why I ended up with an MSc ME rather than a engineers ticket. A little too much "bullying" and "well, I didn't get any help when I started, so I'm not gonna help anyone" for my liking. It may have been completely different on other ships but I got so disillusioned that I opted for the university instead. So far I haven't seen the same behaviour in yachting but perhaps I've just been lucky.

    Again, thanks to your advice I've just emailed the Swedish maritime administration to see what they can offer. This time I also have the MSc, all basic and advanced STCW and a very, very basic Swedish certificate where I can be 2/E, <1500kW in "Sheltered Trade" (which means something like 1 (one!) nautical mile from shore).

    "God spoke and said: Smile and be happy, it could be worse! and I smiled and I was happy and it got worse..." :)
  2. mmss1

    mmss1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    San Remo
    Personally I'm deeply grateful for Marmots help but I do understand if someone thinks that the thread has come off course a bit.

    I still think the original topic is interesting though! Anyone else who wants to contribute?

    - Is there a place for the non-commercial engineer?
    - There are plenty of guys with just an AEC on the smaller yachts, how can we improve the standards?
    - Why are so many yachts saying they're looking for a Y4 or Y3 engineer with no mention of commercial licenses? (Unless >80m when commercial licences often are asked for.)
    - If someone has, let's say, a Y4, would any employer value a MTU training course, an electricians course, (whatever course)... or would it be a waste of time and money?

    (Please note once again: I'm not talking about a youngster skipping school to take a short course and then become chief on 50m MY, but skilled hard-working professionals who for some reason didn't end up with chief engineers ticket but nevertheless want to work as engineers on a yacht.)
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,371
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    They ask for a Y4 because that is what an MCA Captain knows to ask for, or their insurance company requires. If you have a much higher commercial engineering license and mention in your resume that it is above and beyond a Y4 I don't see why they wouldn't hire you if you fit what they're looking for. If you can get your commercial license and avoid the MCA altogether and still be recognized on a Cayman boat, then go that route. I am not well versed on the MCA side of things as I am a US Captain and work on Us flagged vessels primarily or if I step on a Cayman flagged boat it's for a delivery and not long term.

    Yes, they would value MTU training if that is what the vessel has for a powerplant or even if not.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,371
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I am all up for bringing standards up as well, and it should NOT be easy to become an engineer.

    However, NONE of those positions you listed that you worked your way up on exist on any yachts. So if you are going the strictly yacht route, and working your way up to Y4, you certaintly aren't going to get a job as a cadet or 6th engine, 4th engineer, or 2nd engineer for that matter. So, if you are going the yacht route it's a more difficult process even if you're dedicated to working.

    I agree that you gain a lot of experience going the commercial route, tons more then the yachting side. Although some of it might be considered overkill when you convert to the yacht side of things. That being said, no matter how experienced the commercial engineers are, the owner of a Feadship is not going to want to sit across the dinner table with 8 out of 10 of them. I've met more then a few chief engineers from everything from the large push boats to freighters, and a lot of them are very un-polished, which unfortunately a lot of yachting crew is about looks and mannerisms.
  5. mmss1

    mmss1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    San Remo
    Thanks for another well-written post!

    Makes sense that a captain with a yacht ticket would ask for an engineer with one.
  6. Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    You never know when to give up do you, I wonder if that Feadship owner would want to sit down with the Captain who ran that Ferretti up the beach just south of Port Everglades when he was fast asleep.

    I have spent many a happy night on board a 140 Feadship and spent even more nights in the owners private box at sports games.

    You are bringing up what was called oil & water issues which disappeared in shipping many years.

    The reason I listed the different positions I served in was toshow that you had to work your way up on ships so why would it be easy or made easier for yacht engineers.

    mmss1
    I am sorry you were shouted at, if I had left shipping as soon as I was shouted at I may have lasted about 10 minutes. I guess you did not stay around long enough for a good kick in the b---. but that was in the "good old days".

    It really boils down to whether you want to be an engineer or a watch keeper
  7. Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I just copied the following from a major yacht management companies web site

    Are You Mechanically Inclined? Consider A Job As A Yacht Engineer.

    Yacht engineer jobs require applicants to be responsible for all mechanical, electrical, electronic, plumbing and computer systems aboard.

    It is your responsibility to work with both planned maintenance and yard periods to assure that the yacht is always in good, safe, working order. Yacht engineering requires you to do everything from filter and oil changes to complete engine rebuilds. You can’t be afraid to get your hands dirty, but like all jobs onboard, you can expect to present yourself clean and tidy ready to interact with owners and guests at a moment’s notice.

    On charter and larger yachts, you are required to have a yacht engineer license. On smaller yachts the captain or mate may be responsible for the basic engine maintenance. Knowledge of diesel engine maintenance and general mechanical ability is a must for a yacht engineer. Other skill sets useful in yacht engineering include refrigeration, plumbing, electrics, air conditioning and IT experience.
  8. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,390
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    I have watched this thread with interest for a while and have refrained from getting involved as there seems to be enough being said here to fill several log books.

    What I do see in addition to this is that once again there is a poster here who either doesn't have any real experience on anything that isn't point and squirt even though he claims otherwise or just doesn't think what he is writing before posting.

    There are many yachts that carry Chief and 2nd Engineers some carry a 3rd Engineer and an ETO as well. The guy who is asking about this originally is obviously trying to work his way up in the business. Writing things like that is just plain wrong.

    Also you might want to be aware of the Yacht Ticket route before writing too much more about it.

    The Y4 is the lowest of the Y Tickets Y1 is the highest.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,371
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Do you mean these requirements?

    Entry Requirements: Minimum age 19. 42 months service as a yacht engineer with 6 months accumulated sea service. OR MCA approved formal engineering craft training plus 36 months service as a yacht engineer with 6 months accumulated sea service.

    OR A UK engineering craft apprenticeship acceptable to the MCA plus 12 months sea service

    as a yacht engineer with 6 months accumulated sea service. Refer to: MGN158


    How many yachts out there, are large enough to have a 2nd engineer in the entire yachting industry? I would have to guess there are less then 1000 yachts over 200' right now, and how many of those can even have room or a position for a 2nd engineers position.

    The question is, how do you gain 42 months as a yacht engineer with 6 months of seatime without a ticket to start with. Very few yachts will hire an engineer without any ticket. There are smaller yachts that have mate/engineer positions but you're not actually working underneath another engineer to actually learn. So if one was going to become a yacht engineer, without working on commercial boats, how does one do it?
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,371
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Do you mean these requirements for a Y4?

    Entry Requirements: Minimum age 19. 42 months service as a yacht engineer with 6 months accumulated sea service. OR MCA approved formal engineering craft training plus 36 months service as a yacht engineer with 6 months accumulated sea service.

    OR A UK engineering craft apprenticeship acceptable to the MCA plus 12 months sea service

    as a yacht engineer with 6 months accumulated sea service. Refer to: MGN158


    How many yachts out there, are large enough to have a 2nd engineer in the entire yachting industry? I would have to guess there are less then 1000 yachts over 200' right now, and how many of those can even have room or a position for a 2nd engineers position. How many 2nd engineers positions are available, and how many applicants for each position?

    The question is, how do you gain 42 months as a yacht engineer with 6 months of seatime without a ticket to start with. Very few yachts will hire an engineer without any ticket. There are smaller yachts that have mate/engineer positions but you're not actually working underneath another engineer to actually learn anything. So if one was going to become a yacht engineer, without working on commercial boats, how does one do it? What I'm trying to figure out is how you go from no experience to a Y4 in the yachting industry.

    To become a Captain, the route is easy. There are 3-4 deckhand/mates positions to every 1 Captains position. So it's easy to get a job as a fulltime mate (smaller yachts) or a fulltime deckhand on a larger yacht, work your way up to a mates position and gain seatime, learn how to stand a watch, how to maintain the vessel, navigation etc etc......get your licenses and slowly move up. The route for an engineering position seems a lot harder to figure out.
  11. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,390
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    Try looking at MGN 156 which has a few manning tables in it.

    There are not many 200 footers I know of that are sailing legally with only one engineer.

    I am currently involved in a project where the job is fully rotational, the two C/E's are both ex Commercial Guys with 20 yrs in yachting each, the two 2nds have both come up through the yacht route, the 3rd Engineer (which will be a non rotational position) if one is taken on will be a combined deck/engine role, this can be an unlicensed position as it is not required for the Safe Manning Certificate. The ETO will be just that, the two C/E's know enough to be able to help him out when things get really going.

    The 3rd and ETO will only need to have their STCW 95 Safety Courses done and hold valid ENG 1'S to serve aboard.

    There is a lot more to the "yachting" business than that which is covered by the yachts you make your bread and butter on.
  12. jens69

    jens69 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Gothenburg
    swedish marineengineer need help

    Hi, i recently graduate mymarine engineering education for leisure boats. Now, when i am looking for jobopportunitys on a yacht there would like to see y1 to y4 and MTUcourse. We dont have this her in sweden. So can someone help me out here.
    Of course it will help too if someone know a crew what gives a grenhorn like me a chance as a 2nd engineer.thanx for helping me.
    Jens
  13. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,390
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    What if any Certificate of Competency do you hold?

    You might find you have something that can be crossed over to an MCA one?
  14. jens69

    jens69 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Gothenburg
    Checked pm yet?
  15. Telemachus

    Telemachus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    Chicago
    I believe it's called the US Congress.
  16. Telemachus

    Telemachus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    Chicago
    It is amusing to read that. I've been perusing crew manifests and CVs of those seeking positions aboard pleasure yachts and many of the prosepctive candidates mention "cultured" or "well-read" as personal qualities. I suppose I understand now why it is so pervasive. But I guess that also is part of the intrinsic nature of yachting.
  17. kavali

    kavali New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Pireaus
    Hi i am from Greece. I have the certificate of Second Engineer STCW Reg III/2.
    I have worked as third and second engineer in commercial motor vessels ( bulk carriers,ro ro passenger ship). Also i have the cerificates survival,fire fighting,rescue, tanker safety.
    I want to ask how can i upgrade this in a yacht licence or if this equivalent with a Y2,Y3,Y4 certificate?
  18. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,390
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    If it is a Second Engineer unlimited CoC that you have you can be 2nd engineer on any yacht and after 6 months seatime take the Y1 Oral Examination.

    You should read this, particularly Section 3

    http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mgn_156_eng_yacht.pdf
  19. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,320
    Location:
    9114 S. Central Ave
    Since the number of British flagged yachts is relatively small, perhaps the Caymans manning regulations provides a more relevant appraisal of the crossover:

    http://www.cishipping.com/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/SRGHOME/CREW/MANNING/MANNINGPOLICYMANUALVER08.PDF

    In any event, it is pointless and a waste of cash for a commercial 2nd engineer (or USCG 1st Assistant engineer unlimited) license holder to obtain an MCA CEC when his current license is already adequate to obtain a flag state endorsement to sail as chief on any yacht (1000 > GT < 3000 and > 3000 kW) per table 19.3.5 unlimited distance from safe haven, Chief Engineer 2/E (MN) R. III/3 or R. III/2(Y1)

    Don't get sucked into the MCA cash vacuum!
  20. TAR

    TAR Guest

    Hi
    What would you say the easiest and quickest path would be to becoming a yacht engineer? Would you say through university courses or something else, the merchant navy?

    Thanks