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Yacht Charters

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Yachtjocky, Mar 16, 2011.

  1. rodsteel

    rodsteel Member

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    Since from the job postings (and wage sites) I believe a $30K base is average for experienced deck/interior crew on 35m and up motor yachts, what size yacht (and thus weekly charter rate) were you thinking of when you started this thread?

    Rod
  2. zudnic

    zudnic Senior Member

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    I always check and keep receipts because have had restaurants double charge meals frequently enough that its a problem.
  3. Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    Did I mention Europe or the Med ?.

    Talked to a crew member today who works for $12.50 per hour & no benefits.

    Maybe I should have suggested that you re-look at your posts about changing pistons etc while underway as when I correct you I am arguementative however when you do it is because you are correcting false information. :confused:

    Why, because the industry has gone about its business in a certain way for years, can it not be changed. Who would have thought you could go on a cruise for $50 per day on a Carnival boat or even go to the higher end cruise ships and still find it relatively very cheap.

    Now let me throw this one out, how about a yacht that has good toys, sleeps 12 guests and has sister vessels in the USA, Caribbean, Europe or the far east.

    The Captain & crew are on good wages (no TIPS) they all work 3 month on and 3 month off with the same quality and trained crew to replace them.

    A charterer can use the yacht in the Caribbean one year and then know that they are going to get the same or very similar service in the Med the next year.

    For a set price they get to use the boat in their choice of location and maybe this would change the industry and bring many more people to the yacht charter business creating alot more jobs at the same time.

    ...and I have been told that I need help for years so that is nothing new but I have kinda done OK without listening to that advise and as for the girls.... maybe I should start another thread about.....:D
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Been done for nearly 20 years I believe, and it's just another part of the charter industry.
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Monacle does that to a degree with the fractional ownerships. An owner on a Hargrave based in the US/carribbean can exchange weeks with an owner on a hargrave that does the med and so on.

    I feel if most people wanted to charter the same boat in all these locations, they might just purchase one. A lot of charterers like to switch around to different types of yachts in addition to the locations. Sometimes they want a large yacht, sometimes a smaller one. etc......I don't know.
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    For smaller charter yachts (47') The Moorings lept to mind.
  7. Jimbo1959

    Jimbo1959 Member

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    Personally I think Yachtjockey is correct in his thinking. I'm in the services industry and have have never expected a tip. I work as hard as I can everyday because that is the way I was taught growing up. As far as I'm concerned tipping to get better service is just wrong. It's smells of extortion. Nobody owes anybody anything. If you don't like what your being paid then you should find something else to do, but oh yah maybe you can't make enough money because you have no talent.
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Maybe some people don't like to know on January 1st how much they'll have earned by Dec. 31. Some people would rather risk earning 20K for a shot at earning 50K if they work extra hard. Maybe some enjoy the validation that comes from someone saying 'good job Joe', and if that isn't accompanied by something tangible it's nothing but gladhanding, meaningless or worse. Is it a form of bribery, Hell yeah, and it works. Sorry if you find that reprehensible, but it goes on everywhere. Only it's usually only the politicians who get to take advantage of it. When you hire someone and base his salary on how the average worker performs, Do you just consider yourself lucky when you find he's above-average or do you reward him with something extra? If not how do you keep him when you know that others will soon learn he's above-average and not appreciated?
  9. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Bloody Hell guys/girls. Everyone grab a beer, and chill :D

    In Australia we don't tip, I think it's a terrible system (So does my goverment), no offence. We get paid so much a year, it's a great feeling cause you can plan your spendings for rent/car/toys etc (we call this stable). This is how it works downunder - If you want an extra toy, maybe some nice wheels for your car, a new sail, ask the boss if you can do some extra hours/days. If you can't afford that dream house, get a better job, simple.

    Yachtjocky, is making sense. Give the workers a decent/fare pay, and they will feel secure, stable (magic word), and they will reward YOU with loyalty. And once someone feels stable and secure, they won't sit on there wallet.... The cycle begins....?

    Why did America have a massive financial collapse, and your still struggling to get out of it, Australia's dollar has been even and above for some time now :confused: .

    I think I was flying into Denver, and the Captain came on the radio and gave a little spill about the place.... it's population is nearly the same as Australia... :eek:

    Sorry, back to the convo... Yachtjocky, just as long as she was a cutie, we might let that one slide :rolleyes:

    If there's no increase or decrease in service (I'll admit, you American were so bloody nice), then why have such a system in the first place....?

    Far
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    84FAR, you describe Utopia. Unfortunately, most jobs don't offer overtime these days, and when they do they try to get it as cheaply as possible (swapped days or paying twice a month to avoid the over 40 hour = time and a half labor law or naming a person a manager so they're considered salaried). And you'll very seldom hear, anywhere in the world "We get paid so much a year, it's a great feeling". Employers will almost always take that as 'I'm paying them too much'. Also, the downturn in the economy (throughout most of the world) has precious little to do with tips, except that where bribes are common the governments seem to be doing just fine economically (but it doesn't trickle down). There is an increase in productivity when incentives are offered. That's why salespeople work on commission. Even if a person always tries his best normally, he somehow pulls the rabit out of his hat with extra incentives. We've all worked for bosses who demand, demand, demand and we all know what that does to attitude. When we get someone who says "thank you", we can't help but try a little harder. Then there are the perks of tipping. There are only so many slips available in Sag Harbor for the 4th of July. Do you think the person who cold calls with a reputation of being cheap will get preferential treatment over the guy who dropped $1,000 into the dockmaster's pocket last year? There's good service, and then there is going the extra mile.
    As for stability and knowing what you'll earn for the year, some people crave that. I know my wife is one. I find that boring. I need more risk and adventure combined with the possibility of greater rewards to satisfy me. We're all different.
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The charterers tip at the END of the charter. They are tipping as a thank you. If it were for better service, they would have tip at the beginning of the charter. Tips are appreciated, but not usually expected. And, some charterers don't tip.

    You see here's the thing, I'm very very good in my field and have a great reputation. I generally turn down running a yacht with charters (unless the owner himself is very good to me), and I a lot of times turn down running yachts with owners on board. It's a huge hassle, and it's much easier to do deliveries and enjoyable, even if I am running the yacht 12 hours a day, everyday on top of the additional work at the end of each day. I prefer doing my job as a Captain, and not babysitting or waiting around on other people so we can leave the dock at 9am when the plan was 7:30am. I turn down/give away twice as much work as I actually do because I am swamped, and quite frankly no longer need to work if I chose not to. However, I pick and choose and work for the owners that treat me like family, pay me well, and are good people.

    Bottom line is most people that are good are going to go to the yacht that suits their personality, UNLESS there's a whole lot of money involved to make up for it. Waittresses wait on tables because it pays more than most anything else they are capable of doing, it certainly isn't a glamorous job.

    Just yesterday I turned down going fulltime as Captain on a yacht for a fortune 500 family, where I could pick my crew, and pay was well above scale, because I'm not interested.
  12. Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    You may think I am being arguementative again but I think I would not really come out and state that

    "Waittresses wait on tables because it pays more than most anything else they are capable of doing".

    Maybe if you did indeed stop working you could help those poor in-capable waitress's as you would have plenty of time on your hands.

    "quite frankly no longer need to work if I chose not to."

    ...and I thought I was pretty cocky but I do not think I have come out and stated,

    "I'm very very good in my field and have a great reputation".

    that may just come back to bite you so I think you must have been sticking your tongue in your cheek with that post, or sticking something somewhere :p

    and just so I understand your point, you do not like charters, you do not like owners because they are a "hassle", interesting

    as for my earlier posts, I am not talking about one Hargrave owner swopping a week or two with another one nor am I suggesting fractional owneship, what I am suggesting is that you could build a yacht with say 5 cabins, each about the same style, the rest of the boat could be pretty good, maybe not up to the highest of standards but way up there.

    You would have say two here and two in the Med. four yachts with six crews who would rotate. instead of those 150' yacht being chartered for say 120,000 per week plus all of the expenses and TIPS bring the costs down to say 80,000 all in. That would open the market up to folk like me who would not mind going on a yacht with say one or two other families (good friends) who can also afford to spend 30 to 40K per week but who would maybe balk at the idea of spending 160K + per week.

    Open up that much larger customer pool and you may find that there would be many more jobs created not just for captains & crews but to boat builders, yards etc etc.

    and as for those dockmasters who have their hands out, i know it goes on, I have done it but that does not make it right.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I know plenty of waittresses who make $1,000+ a week and mostly cash here in the US, without the need for a formal degree. Compare that to a starting salary for someone with a 4yr degree is 600-700$ a week. However, most waittresses blow a lot of that money at the next bar after work with the others. Easy come easy go.

    I prefer doing deliveries over trips with owners and definately charters, thats what I like and prefer and can focus on doing, much like you prefer being an engineer over a deckhand and won't accept a deckhand position. I'm not in the business for the money or charter tips, it is a passion. I still do some owner trips for certain owners. Some are a huge hassle, such as the one with Dewey Gumbo from the Bayou who had a 12 pack of beer down by 2pm and was starting on the cheap boxed wine at 2pm and told the exact same stories in exactly the same order every single day. Try 10 or 12 days straight with that on a 45' yacht. Other's are great, but it's the luck of the draw. But a delivery without owners leaves a lot less variables, liability, and such.

    I have put myself in a financial position where my fixed monthly investment income pays all of my living expenses and then some, rather than dropping it at the bar every single night until I couldn't read as a lot of others do in this business. I've also worked very hard to get to that point, at my age, and continue to do so until I feel the need to retire or move onto something else. I'm not rich, but live a nice normal life or above normal life, and can buy whatever I desire, granted I don't desire a yacht. But I brought up the I'm very good in my field and no longer need to work, to put it into perspective that I am not "stuck" taking any job or every job that comes along to pay the bills.

    It sounds like a great idea, when are you having the 4 yachts built and at which yard? I think people would rather charter a smaller yacht, than share with other families it's not nearly the same experience. You also get into having to have them inspected to carry that many passangers under most all flags. And then who uses the tender and when etc etc etc etc.......this group has to be on/off between these dates, the other group doesn't. Too many variables and if it was financially feasible I think it would've been done already. Considering that it's a very very small percentage of charter yachts that actually turn a profit, I don't think anyone would venture that type of capital to do it or it could be profitable enough.
  14. Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    "Too many variables and if it was financially feasible I think it would've been done already."

    I wonder if the guy who started Facebook thought like that, maybe he did not have a fixed monthly income to fall back on.

    I do not think you must have a family as that is what of alot of us do, we go off with our friends and kids to enjoy life.
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    150' charter yachts do not want to price themselves to attract more customers. They want to attract customers who can afford their services. The only way they could make it one price for all is to dictate where you go, at what speed, and every other detail of the cruise, much like a cruise ship. People who charter are looking for something different. Fortunately, there is something for everyone. From mega-yachts to the fleets of cats or GB, to overnight ferries to canoes. Lots of niches.
    As for the cap there not liking to run with customers on board, I've known a lot who feel the same. It's a lot of extra work. Basically, you're on duty 24/7, having to be witty and sociable the entire time. And I've met more than one owner I'd like to leave off on a buoy somewhere. Nothing like being stuck on a boat with that.
  16. tirekicker11

    tirekicker11 Senior Member

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    CaptJ: "Some are a huge hassle, such as the one with Dewey Gumbo from the Bayou who had a 12 pack of beer down by 2pm and was starting on the cheap boxed wine at 2pm and told the exact same stories in exactly the same order every single day. Try 10 or 12 days straight with that on a 45' yacht."

    Brilliant! I've got to have that quote on a T-shirt. :D
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    My wife, who used to work with me, had two t-shirts she liked to wear. One said "WHATEVER" and the other "YIKES!". Sort of her inside way of saying exactly that, because "Yo! S--- for brains." was a little too obvious.:D
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The sad thing is, I was stuck with that for 10 to 12 days. One day near the end of the trip when I finally had enough I pointed at a seat in the aft corner of the flybridge and yelled at him "Dewey sit down and shutup"

    But, as NYCAP said it is a whole lot of extra work, and you do have to be alert and attentative to their needs or wants all of the time.

    The other thing is the owner always wants to go "instead" of the mate, yet they don't do the jobs the mate normally does such as tieing up the boat, rinsing and chamoising it, putting out the fenders" etc. They get a few lines on, and guess who has to put out the fenders, rinse and chamois the boat, check the engine room and be done before they want you to go to dinner with them. Then since I didn't have time to plot my course for the next day, or research the next marina for the next night, check weather etc etc. I have to do that after dinner.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The guy who started Facebook stole the idea from the very people that employed him to make the software (the Winklevosses I believe). Then he went on to ripoff his best friend and business partner that financed his startup of the software and company. Regardless of the outcome, I would never want to be that guy. Far too much money and NO friends.

    What you're basically describing is a miniature cruise ship experience (several families on at the same time), and not a private yacht charter. They do charters that you're speaking of, when it comes to scuba diving and such. It is a unique idea, but I think very different then what people are seeking when chartering a yacht.

    And yes I have a family, most all of my family and extended family lives in South Florida, and we have done a lot of different types of family vacations. Sometimes renting an entire house in a unique destination, sometimes a yacht trip, sometimes flying somewhere. It always varied and we rarely do or did the same thing twice. I think a lot of people like variety in their vacations, and then there are some that go back to the same place every year for a certain activity such as skiing in Aspen.
  20. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    what brings people to chartering is that they calll the schedule and the activities. On charter, while i put together an itinerary and rough schedule for activities it's just a suggestion and the charterer ultimately decides what they want to do, how long they want to stay somewhere, etc...

    of course it often involves changing reservations at the last minute and sometimes coming up with alternate solutions. part of the job.

    I do the occasional delivery, in addition to the run up and down the coast in teh spring and in the fall and it's a completly different job from charters. I have to say that i like doing both but charters are twice teh work hence twice the earnings.