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Why no lower Helm on Sportfishers?

Discussion in 'General Sportfish Discussion' started by Fishtigua, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    I dislike the pod controls. You cannot control the wheel and the throttles at the same time. You look like a cowboy backing up. In long battles with fish you have to stand. Give me separate controls- two gear and two throttles any day, then two controls that integrate both functions next to each other- preferred to be on the right side of the wheel so I can steer with my left.
  2. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    Again, I ask why the need for two sets? The rest of the world gets by with a double action set. Am I missing something? :confused:
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    When you're running a SF you are a cowboy. There's no relaxing when you're backing down. It's done fast and hard and no mistakes (hence the seperation between controls). If you're using the wheel you're not using more than one throttle and that's just when going forward. When you're using the gears/throttle backing down you're not using the wheel and the wheel is just a place to put your butt. Granted having them together is better for idling up the canal, but that's not the bread & butter of an SF.
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Fish, you're going to hate the answer....(2) motors.:rolleyes:
  5. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    Ed,

    Yeah, yeah. Been there, done that. I've always spun the boats on the thottles so easily, even backed down over a reef on a wave (very proud of that one, good tip from the owner of the Blackfin 32, I was stupid and 20).

    No, and I'll spell this simplely (my spelling is anyones guess) WHY do you need two sets of controls?

    In gear, out of gear. Fine.

    Power on, power off. Even better.

    Why mess about with 4 sticks when 2 do the same job????? :confused:
  6. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    Ed, why 2 throttles and 2 gears (that makes 4 if you've been out tonight :D ).

    Please give the nice one out of the outfit a Valentine kiss from me. (It ain't you, Buddy)

    Fish
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Was wondering about that. As for not using the combined gear/throttle, that's simply old technology. The only reasons I can see for using it today is if taking the risk of throwing it from full ahead to full reverse in .5 seconds gives you a thrill or if you want to maintain the integrity of an antique.
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Yeah, Thinking you were referring to that pic I thought you were confused, but looking at the position of those sticks that could be a single moter. Kind of thought you should have known better, but figured you may have been out for a pint.;) Being a Noo Yawka we have trouble with the queens english.:D So we're set then...old fashioned. Happy Valentines
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The main reason is that woman started deciding that they didn't want a helm station which they considered ugly in the middle of the salon and it also limited the salon/galley layout. With the advances in bridge enclosures, most would not use the lower helm.
  10. Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    I've had myself and seen it happen where the gear part fails and throttle does not. That means you throttle down and think you are changing from F-R or R-F but you are not- and when you put it "in gear" you are still in the last gear- then you throttle up- in the last gear used.

    That's an opinion and I do not agree. I work on a all sportfish dock and most of the captains IMHO are not cowboys. Being a cowboy is an insult in my book BTW. Maybe it's a difference of definition. The pointy end of a boat goes faster than the flat end anyways, and you chase down a fish in forward better than in reverse.
    Try fighting a fish for several hours with pods and you'll not be a fan of them. Two years ago we had a fish on for ten hours- yes ten- on 25 pounds of drag for the first 8 hours then 35-40 for the last two. No way I could have done that with pods. Nor the four hour fish last year.
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    If you're dealing with a cable rig it's (2) cables so you're in the exact same situation except that you may feel it more when you move the seperate gear lever. In either rig you can put it into the forward position and have full throttle but not have the gear change.
    A cowboy rides em hard and puts em away wet. They chase em down and wrangle them in. That's no insult. It's a compliment. to a hard working, not afraid to get dirty, think on your feet type of guy.
    In that case they put the cockpit on the wrong end.
    Let that fish get around to the bow and you'll wish you had no props of any kind.
    Did you sit on the bow as you chased him in forward?
  12. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    hi,

    NYCAP123, i dont have much info on the boat. the year of it, well i think i was way off... i think it dates back to the 60s, but i couldnt find it on the list of boats made by the company. i found it on google last year some time, it was under ryco marine or something. i tried to find the pics/info again but couldnt find anything. it was a restoration job and the name could have been changed.
    and the age thing, i was trying to be respectful and get across that u ppl, compared to me, have more experience and more knowledge which comes with age.

    The Rybovich Registry - http://www.rybovich.com/RyboReg.aspx

    and yes LITTLE PETE is on the list, twice. it was so good they made 2, probably.

    Bamboo, i dont follow your logic in regards to your setup for steering/controls. when reversing, wouldnt it be easyer to stand facing towards the back of the boat, either parking or fishing, thus the two controls either side. u can see whats happening in the cockpit, and talk to the crew. the SF rudders are engineered/designed to be small and thus ineffective at low speeds, and u have 1000hp+ a side, so why use the wheel?

    driving foward while a fish is on the line... are u in a centre console wheres theres a donk on the transom?

    far
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Good morning 84. Don't worry about the age comment. I was kidding with you.:D Besides, getting older beats the alternative. Plus, as you get older you learn a few more things. Your original estimation of the boat being from the 80's was right. That high bow rail is a clue, but beyond that the company was founded in 1982.
  14. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    For an idea, here are some examples of what sportfish/convertible bridge helms looked like "way back when" from YachtWorld broker photos - a 1970 Hatteras, a 1967 Hatteras, a 1957 Whiticar, a 1974 Norseman, and a 1959 Norseman...

    Attached Files:

  15. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    NYCAP, i thought you were kidding, i was just making sure. im always up for a good discussion, thus the reason for signing up. but im not here to insult people, and i was just making sure i didnt insult you.

    its always good to bounce ideas off eachother, but its also good to bounce disagreements... so u get all sides of the story.

    Seafarer, i like the pics u posted. its amazing how much cleaner the centre console has become over the years. the 74 Norseman would be interesting to operate under pressure.

    far
  16. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Hey 84, I think you missed post 53. No insult. Believe me, you don't get to this age, with this mug, having a thin skin;) . Plus, I'm proud of making it here and glad for the experiences that got me here. Wouldn't trade for anything.:cool:
    It took a long time for fabricators to get subtle curves in F/G that wouldn't get cracks, hence lots of straight lines. Plus, the SF of those days was strictly a guys boat. Aesthetics took second place to function. The boats were also in a period (early '70s) where, to gain strength, they were adding thickness more than looking at new composites so you ended up with some serious battle-wagons.
  17. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    NYCAP, all is good. i did see the post #53. you took what i was saying the wrong way. which was my fault... the way i had it worded was misleading. i would have put a 'wink' or 'smilies' at the end of the first sentence but i got in trouble by Mr Y/F for using to many of them, so i got band from using them. so you'll now find a lot of my posting may be like this, either misleading or direct... basically it is hard to get a joke in there without the 'wink' or 'smilies'.

    anyways, with the boat second from the bottom, what is the third controller for on each of the sides... my guess is, forward - reverse - speed...?

    far
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    OK, this is starting to sound like a conversation I have with my wife about once every...anyway, you made a joke and I responded with a joke. and I'll put in the :D my friend.
    As for the 3rd stick, good looking out. Unless he's running trips I don't have a clue.
  19. Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    If a 800 pound fish wants to swim away from you at a high rate of speed there is not much you can do about it. You spin the boat and chase it down at an angle. Trying to back down is not an option many times, and experience keeps a dear school as we all know. It is harder than you think to stand up, face backwards, control the boat and everything else for more than an hour. I'd much rather fight the fish on my terms- and that includes sitting down.
    Rudders are not tiny on all sportfishers, and yes you do use them when backing into a slip or on a fish. First you learn to use the engines with the wheel straight ahead to maneuver the boat- then you use the wheel and engines together- if you do not you'll never be a good boat handler. I cannot tell you many working details of a racing sailboat, or on a small sea tow vessel, or an trans-atlantic trawler- but there are tricks and tactics that are learned only by being on such vessels. Same thing on a 50+ foot SF. As my dad once told me "what you learn by swinging a cat around by its tail you can learn no other way." (of course he meant it metaphorically) -there are more than some SF captains that do not like the palm beach pod.
    Inside the SF captain's world being called a "cowboy" is akin to being called a "hot shot". While there are some out there that crave attention and the spotlight, many of us are just regular guys and don't need to draw attention to ourselves. Those that are cowboys tend to be butt of jokes by the rest of us. I'm on a 20+ meter SF- not a center console, BTW. I am just one guy- and many of us on SF's have very different job descriptions/fishing styles/preferences/habits/likes and dislikes.
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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