Discussion in 'Hatteras Yacht' started by Tortoise, Nov 28, 2020.
Thought this forum would be blowing up by now.
What are you referring to? The Covid delay lawsuit?
What kind of an idiotic post is that?
If so, of all the possible suits, this one has about the least potential. I'm just imagining before a jury where one three jurors lost their jobs during the pandemic, two lost close family members, another lost their home, another lost his small restaurant and someone is suing because their $10 million yacht is late? As if most Hatteras' aren't late even without pandemics.
Of course suing and not continuing to make progress payments isn't going to help get it finished.
Interesting that I found 5 boat builders sued in NC within the last year or so, seems to be a popular pastime.
As to lawsuits over pandemic shutdowns and contracts during them, insanity. I'll take a simple thing like a business lease. We had well over 300 leases and reached an easy compromise on 100% of them. Now, GAP is in lawsuits with Simon and Brookfield as they decided to pay nothing. Didn't vacate the space though.
Force majeure has never been so popular but no one knows what it means in this situation, how to apply it. For instance, it does allow terminating a lease, but it doesn't allow you to stay and not pay. In the Hatteras case it specifically says it includes government action but has to exceed 120 days. Hatteras was only shut 67 days. The rest of the delay is not due to that action.
Most boat builders had one or more buyers decide to back out of deals. Some were not started. Some were like this one, barely started, and the buyer just walked away. Others were well under construction and searched for new buyers to assume the contract. We have a boat being built and immediately agreed we would be fine with the delay. In fact, we regained time lost while another buyer was on hold, then they agreed to proceed and moved from ahead of us to behind. Probably fair settlement on the Hatteras case would have been keeping any money actually spent and returning the balance if less had been spent than paid.
I have no tolerance for people trying to take advantage of a pandemic. I don't like landlords being inflexible with commercial tenants but don't like GAP saying they're paying nothing. Now, having many mall leases, I could make a strong argument either way, but reasonable people just try to find a middle ground.
Are you referring to the folks in Viareggio? If so, fair play to them!
Why, would that have given you some kind of satisfaction? How weird.
How did you assume that from such few words. A delivery captain I met on the fuel docks here yesterday told me that Hatteras was shut down (as in permanently) and told me to go to SAMS site for more info, and sure as heck there was a thread there that seemingly implied his statement to be true. I had thought this forum was up on all the goings on in the marine business, and surely Hatteras is more relevant to members than Beneteau shutting down in SC. I might be a tortoise, but I hear pretty good.
Oh, they've been great and we immediately gave them an extension of time. They've made excellent progress. We anticipate an April finish but could be May. Them finishing the boat isn't a problem. Us being able to use it when finished is still. They've been great to work with through the entire build. We have had people there as well.
Ob you have many good points and perspective. We were lucky with our tenants except one large company. They have a large government contract that was unaffected by covid and kept working. They were the first to call and demand no rent for months and possibly longer. Asked them for financials to prove this harm. They refused. It angered me they so callously used covid as an excuse
Well, FWIW my post was in the form of a question. Not an assumption. Rumors of Hatteras’ demise are nothing new. The thread you referred to is just that. Is the end near? Who knows.
Good to hear that.
All the best, and hope to see you around if you'll decide to enjoy her in the Med for some time.
Because I have my fair share of grey hairs. Ever heard the expression "c'est le ton qui fait la musique"?
I wouldn't have posted the reply I posted, if in your OP you would have said what you are saying now.
I can assure you that Hatteras is not shut down and is operating. Currently has many yachts in build, and the delivery Captain you spoke to has had a few too many 6 packs. They did announce they are for sale.
I looked at the thread and it's really bad for people to spread rumors of a company closing without having certain knowledge. Several things are said in the thread.
First, there's talk of Hatteras being for sale. Hatteras is like every business owned by Versa, it was for sale the day they bought it. That would mean they're always talking to potential buyers too and 90% of those fall by the wayside. Also worth noting that the CEO of Hatteras, appointed in January, is a board member of Versa and his last role before Hatteras was arranging the sale of Polartec to Milliken. So, I would think his purpose is to arrange a sale.
If you look at Versa's portfolio, Hatteras is likely the least impacted by the Pandemic. Yes, they had a shutdown, but they are selling things. Versa holds an airline and parking lots and hotels and apparel stores and steak houses, and publishing. Those are scary.
Might Versa's issues impact Hatteras? If they have to liquidate businesses to pay investors or something of that nature, yes. Every day it impacts Hatteras by the cash made available to them. However, I see no way for Versa to benefit by shutting Hatteras down.
I also look at the original post on Sam's. The total post is "Word on the street here in New Bern is that Hatteras is gone!" No supporting information. In another post he says, "I hear that they had a buyer and it fell through. Supposedly will to close by year end." This is all "word on the street." Well, I've heard word on that same street for years that Hatteras was bankrupt or going out of business. I can't guaranteed Hatteras won't close but I know if it did it would sure be scooped up quickly, and I have no information to support such rumors. I talk to people who talk to Hatteras people daily.
If they had no orders, I'd be worried, but they have orders right now. Their problem is orders stacking up and boats needing to be built. Are they seeing a softening in the market? Yes. But right now they're finishing boats and starting more. Are they profitable? In a separate environment I believe they would be. With Versa and debt and with too much top level executive suite, I doubt they are, but that doesn't mean the underlying business isn't profitable. Run properly, it could be very much so.
Biggest problem is going back and forth between Massa and Viareggio. Different provinces, one red, one orange.
Add shale energy to that list.
Yes, don't they have a beautiful portfolio.
Here is their Portfolio:
Hard hit pandemic business segments:
-Avenue (Women's Apparel)
-Black Angus (Steakhouse)
-Freedom Central (Media)
-Heartland Publications (Media)
-Central Lewmar (Paper distributor)
-Briteline (Pavement Marking)
Mixed or no impact or unknown impact
-Syncardia (Artificial Heart for temporary use)
-Bell and Howell
-Allen Vanguard (Defeating the drone threat-no, I don't make this s... up)
-Holliston (I have no idea)
-Hatteras-Business strong during pandemic except for days of shutdown
Actually, my understanding is that this classification is made at Region rather than Province level.
Local authorities do have the option of introducing specific rules, but only in the direction of further restrictions.
And since the whole Tuscany is still red (just reconfirmed yesterday, btw), I don't see how either Massa-Carrara or Lucca (which is the name of the Province including Viareggio) can be de-classified to orange.
That's all a bit academic anyway, since also in orange Regions movements are restricted to specific reasons - which do include work, but only for folks directly involved in production activities, not for clients/buyers.
Anyhow, overall the situation of the second wave is already improving Country-wise, so I don't expect it should take long before you'll be able to go see your new pride and joy.
Also because here the central Govt (as opposed to the US, I must say) is being very strict with containment measures, also in lower-risk (yellow) Regions: mandatory masks everywhere, no large gatherings, etc.
On one hand, this is sadly affecting a lot of activities, but is also proving effective in limiting the pandemic - which in turn helps restarting economic activities asap.
Anyway, all the very best.
Goes without saying that we are all rooting for drastic improvements well before the next boating season!
Tuscany is Red so very limited activity but going to work allowed. Travel very restricted. While rules are by region, provinces are checking travelers on occasion, just to check where they're headed. All very courteous.
I think Italy is handling things well after waiting too long to react initially. They were the first big hit in Europe and didn't appreciate how it would spread. Some people did encounter issues driving from Massa to Viareggio but when explained they were fine. As Americans, our employees are sometimes questioned but no problems and law enforcement very friendly. They will be flying home mid December and others returning to Italy in January hopefully. We're very compliant with all protocols and pick up the auto previously left at the airport, drive to the villa and quarantine. The villa is well set up to allow them to quarantine and still get food from the chef there. We've been doing this for many months now so system working well.
Yep, all agreed.
We did learn a bit how to manage this sh!t, after being caught with the pants down by the first wave.
Well, as far as it can actually be "managed" - more like "live with", to be honest.
Fingers crossed for some effective vaccine being available soon, allowing us all to defeat the pandemic for good!