Click for YF Listing Service Click for Burger Click for YF Listing Service Click for Nordhavn Click for Ocean Alexander

What yachts 130' or under?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by olderboater, Sep 7, 2013.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,392
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    Rogue waves do exist but if you worry about being hit by one too much you will never leave your couch.

    I am looking at a project right now where the fwd 1/3 of the vessel is being specially strengthened to withstand rogue waves at special request of the Owner.
  2. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,332
    Location:
    I dunno
    I hate big waves.

    Rogue waves are big waves.

    Jack Madden stopped flying.

    If a Super Bowl were to be held in Hawaii, he stated he would take a cruise ship.

    Just a matter of personal preference.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Interesting boat. We made the decision not to go for a fully custom build and the effort and time frame involved. Also, as for general use as opposed to ocean crossing, we did want greater speed than the Swath provides. Over the years we may change. But right now we enjoy the ability to go faster if we choose. We're ok with 10-12 knots at times, but not all the time. So while I do appreciate boats like the Swath, they just aren't for us at this time.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    As Kiwi said. I honestly fear pirates more than rogue waves. Not so much on an Atlantic crossing but in other places.
  5. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,670
    Location:
    Germany
    Rogue waves

    Hapag Lloyd lost a pretty large special cargo vessel (Munich Express) in the late seventies due to a rogue wave in the mid atlantic. The ship just disappeared. There were only one survivor. He was found barely alive on a floating container days later. Those monsters are very hard to predict, because they do not appear with and according to the general wave picture and current wind. A real strange phenomena. Sometimes they can bee seen on non geostationary radar satellite pictures but they are still a danger to the shipping world. In the old days, sailors were concidered lunatic, if they insisted in having seen one. Thanks god, they do not appear very often. The most frightening picture I have seen, is the large oil rig smashed to pieces by one of those waves. This wave must have been more than 100 ft high.

    Attached Files:

  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    John Madden.

    I admire him for that too. For a lot of his life he had to fly and it was very difficult for him. So when he reached the point he didn't have to any longer, more power to him. Honestly, I'd rather take his coach than fly and it has nothing to do with fear in my case.

    A young basketball player, Royce White, whose fear of flying may prevent him from the pro career he could otherwise have. Now his is part of a greater anxiety issue.

    Much of life is personal preferences. That's like the search for the perfect boat. It doesn't exist. You find what is the boat that's closest for you. But my ideal boat isn't going to be the same as yours or Kiwi's.
  7. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    See we each develop our own fears. Do you have any idea how many people get terribly sick and even how many die on cruise ships? There is even a web site devoted to cruise ship deaths. Cruise ships are not without danger, it's just a different danger.

    Now, we talk about rogue waves and dangers of ocean crossing. Yet, if you look you won't find a lot of circumstances of tragedy actually striking boats comparable to a WP 130 on Atlantic crossings. Admittedly the sample size is small but even looking at smaller boats. I haven't found a lot of well planned, solid boat, trans-atlantic tragedies. Could we be the first? Yes. But then we also risk regularly driving in South Florida. We certainly don't go into it thinking there is no risk. But you protect best as you can and manage risks the best you can.

    Personally we have no desire for cruise ships in general, but, if we did, reading about many of the recent events on them would tend to scare me away. The thought of being horribly sick with hundreds of other horribly sick people. The thought of losing all power and being at sea with thousands and using plastic bags as toilets and eating only cold food that can be found. But then I don't like Ferris Wheels. I close my eyes and hold Belle on them.
  8. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,392
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    Do you have any idea what my ideal boat actually is?

    If ever I go mad enough to own a boat I hope it is a Aluminium Dinghy of approx 5 m and equipped with an outboard motor, it can be towed too and from the beach by my old tractor.

    It will have good safety gear for a vessel of its size, removeable non corrosive fuel tanks with weight and optical level gauging.

    I will use it to dive from and hopefully get back into and to fish then go home and enjoy whatever I have caught at home with the boat in the shed and relax.

    After having spent most of my life working on other people boats/ships I think I want as simple as possible to achieve the basic result sought.
  9. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I believe I had heard that from you before. If not, I certainly can understand why you'd want that.

    I also picture the boat you'd build if you were just turned lose with no money restraints and told to build a boat for someone. It would be the safest and the most bullet proof boat ever. An engineered masterpiece.
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Definitely not venturing to Antarctica. Would come closer to Arctic than that, but still prefer to keep a healthy distance. No ice breaking for us. Trips to Canada and Alaska will be summer.

    I love this quote:

    It would appear that since an icebreaker as powerful as the MS Xue Long, whose Master seems to be a capable person, is unable to make progress the Master of the MS Akademik Shokalskiy took his ship too far into the coastal ice.

    This could get complicated if the ice breakers headed there now get stuck trying to rescue the one already there rescuing the ship. What happens when more ice breakers get stuck rescuing the existing ice breakers or are they out after these? Right now they're just hoping for a wind shift. I hope they get it. I'm sure at some point this could get critical and lives be in danger.
  11. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,988
    Location:
    Dana Point, Ca
    I understand personal preferences but am puzzled as to your lack of confidence in the WP 130 crossing the Atlantic, especially with the short leg offshore Island route.

    Do not confuse one-leg ocean ocean crossings (a very short list of participating MY's) to the way these types of capable passagemakers are really used.

    She will get you there in one piece, come on, you can admit it, it won't feel that bad.....;)
  12. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,670
    Location:
    Germany
    Old Salt Blog

    That is a nice blog, Old Phart. I will keep reading it.

    Going into solid ice with your ship is a strange experience. The first time, I had to do this, was during my active duty as a skipper of a 500 ft multi purpose cargo vessel. I was the second ship in a convoy of five cargo vessels behind a finnish icebreaker on the way to Turku, Finnland. We entered 3 to 4 ft solid ice and had to stay in the narrow passageway, the icebreaker left behind. Heavy snowfall and total darkness at 1500 hours already. A radar trail maneuver without a special ice detection radar is no fun at all. If you hear the noise of those pieces of ice, scratching the paint off your ships hull is really frightening. The last ship in the convoy got lost and the icebreaker had to turn around and make a new passageway for that ship to get it back on track :eek:.

    We finally made it to Turku, I picked up my cargo of pine wood and the icebreaker brought us back to the ice free part of the Baltic Sea. Since that day, I have a huge amount of respect for icebreaker captains and their crews. They do an unbelievable job. And this was only solid ice, packed ice is much worse.

    But doing this in the Antartic even during its summer, is a totally different story. From one minute to the other, you can encounter packed ice, stronger than the largest nuclear icebreaker can handle. If you get stuck in one of those barriers of packed ice, you may easily loose your ship and it will take a lot of dynamite to get you out of there. Thanks god, I am to old for that type of business now.

    Attached Files:

  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Fortunately the people on board the ship in the Antarctica are safe, doing well, and have several weeks of food and supplies. The Aurora Australis was approaching it but now it has stopped about 28 miles away due to snow.
  14. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Nordland (near Port Townsend), WA, USA
    It's the austral summer now. The least icy time to go far south. Even at the right time of year high latitudes can be challenging.
  15. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,670
    Location:
    Germany
    Rescue the rescuer

    Now the Chinese Icebreaker is also stuck in packed ice. The Australian icebreaker (which has the rescued people from the Russian ship onboard) had to turn around and help the Chinese icebreaker. Pretty long trip for those passengers and scientist from the Russian ship but the international laws and rules of the seas places helping others higher than personal comfort. Lets hope for a good ending for all of them.
  16. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Nordland (near Port Townsend), WA, USA
    It's a secret government plot to build a floating pontoon bridge from Australia to Antarctica, one icebreaker at a time.
  17. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,392
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    I was disappointed to read of one of the so called Scientists onboard grumbling about how it was not fair they had to help and could not be rushed back to their families.

    The Chinese rescued them from the Russian ship and got stuck in the process.

    I was once in the outback of Nth Queensland on a job. I came across a bit where I had to drop down and drive through a gully as the road ahead was blocked by a transporter with a machine on it where they were cutting trees and moving signs to get it along the road.

    I had a tandem trailer on the back, there was a guy in front of me in another 4WD he asked me if he tried to get through and got stuck if I would be able to winch/pull him out. He said if he got through he would wait for me on the other side and help me if I got stuck.

    He got through and I followed his tracks and got through myself.

    This is generally the spirit of folks in remote locations, these desk jockeys should remember how they got to the warmth and comfort of the Australian Icebreaker and not grumble about the perceived hardships.
  18. Milow232

    Milow232 Guest

    Prime example of the much claimed lack of civil courage in our present society. Sad but true.
  19. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Prime example of the extreme costs of the actions of some who take chances that ultimately turn out to be unreasonable. Look at the cost financial and in manpower of the boat going into these waters, with all the rescue vessels following to help. It's like those who venture out in sea conditions they clearly shouldn't with the combination of their boat, their experience and the conditions. Of course, we should and are going to rescue these who do it. It's the right thing. But every time someone decides to make some move that pushes their luck against mother nature they should think not only of themselves but of those who might be charged with the rescue tasks, as well as their families. We do have responsibilities to others and it starts with responsible behavior.