Click for Abeking Click for Apolonnian Click for Abeking Click for Walker Click for Westport

What will yachts and yachting look like in 2015?

Discussion in 'Popular Yacht Topics' started by Windswept, Feb 19, 2009.

  1. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,314
    Location:
    9114 S. Central Ave
    Have you not been reading this thread?

    I never said anything about performance degradation with extreme temperature, if for no other reason, I am well aware that few yacht interiors ever reach -20C. I merely stated that 15C is the figure used to illustrate self discharge rates and 15C is not extreme. Please don't try to make it look like I even bothered to discuss battery performance at any temperature. I don't think it is a factor even if they were a viable option for large yacht propulsion, which I don't think they will by by 2015 or even 2020.

    This thread is about yachts, yachts are designed to be mobile. Geothermal sources are not available at sea, and long extension cords are unwieldy. like I wrote earlier, show me a 3 megawatt battery and charging system that doen't require stopping for a week every few miles on the way to St. Maarten.

    Few Caribbean islands have solar or geothermal power supplies on their grid. Most are powered by diesel or steam, and burn fossil fuels. Recharging yacht batteries only tranfers the cost and pollution to people and facilities already reeling from declining local economies and rising energy prices.

    At around $6 million per megawatt, we are unlikely to see yachts fitted with 3 or 4 megawatts of solar arrays. I can't be bothered to do the math for you but it would probably require an array the size of an aircraft carrier flight deck to keep the yacht moving.
  2. Innomare

    Innomare Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    233
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Boats don't accelerate and brake all that much. And that's exactly where hybrid propulsion saves fuel in cars (smaller engine and braking recovery).
    Boats usually maintain their speed - be that 15 knots or 25 - for longer periods . In that case, you have to look at the most efficient propulsion mode for a given displacement and speed profile. An extra power conversion to electric and back doesn't help, as no conversion ever has a 100 % efficiency.

    Diesel electric (not even considering batteries) has its merits in cruiseships with big hotel loads or vessels with very variable loads, such as crane vessels (lifting or sailing) and dredgers (pumping or sailing).

    For yachts, diesel electric makes sense for lower noise, increased maneuverability and flexibility in the layout. It's not exactly a green option.

    Improved batteries (and an inverter) could be useful to substitute a night generator. Maybe in combination with an ice-tank for the AC, because with the AC running, you won't last long on batteries.

    I don't expect big changes by 2015, unless marinas reduce tariffs for boats with catalytic converters, soot burners, etc. This evolution is happening is right now in commercial ships frequenting Norway and Sweden.
  3. Windswept

    Windswept New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Onboard
    In the large yacht sector, does Feadship have the answer?

    Attached Files:

  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,384
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    I wouldn't say so with that particular boat anyway.

    She has 4 x MTU's driving 2 x CPP's through RENK Combiner boxes.
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,218
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    1st time I've seen her launch with the matching bow. Wonder how that's working out with a small boat. Seems it might be wet.
  6. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,314
    Location:
    9114 S. Central Ave
    I don't think the guy who put 4 MTU's together to drive 2 screws was too concerned about what most people define as efficiency. ;)
  7. SAB

    SAB New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Some interesting details for a new 30.5m superyacht design called Code [e];
    The vessel will have a hybrid (silent) propulsion system which does not emit toxic gases, has an independent running time of 15 minutes and can be used to moor in port or to access an anchorage. For long distances, conventional fuels are still required. The yacht will be equipped with 40 m² of solar panels, integrated into the structure of the vessel and able to provide 35 kWh in clear weather. Other features include two vertical and retractable 1,110 W wind generators, positioned on either side of the coach roof. Two hydro generators provide electricity when under sail, and the use of LED lighting throughout. Lithium-ion batteries have been chose for the design, as they provide the best energy-to-weight ratio and, when not in use, the slowest discharge currently available on the market. The wastewater treatment system treats black water and grey water without any discharge. An electric load shedding system enables electricity load shedding to be monitored automatically, reducing needless peaks in consumption and the need to resort too frequently to the electrical generator.

    Attached Files:

  8. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,384
    Location:
    My Office


    Hi,

    Do you know what system is used on this boat and or have any idea about the capacity of it?
  9. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,536
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    Could be the Dragonfly
    http://dragonflymarine.com
  10. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,384
    Location:
    My Office
    HI Ken,

    You are the 3rd Person to suggest that to me since I posted that, two from here at YF and one I passed in the passageway on my way to the head.

    I have previously heard good things about this but not been able to track down any yachts running it until today that is....

    I am working on a spec for a new project and would like to be able to recommend something with a verifiable history of performance/reliability, It's lack of Coast Guard or other official approval documentation makes it a hard sell, this is not the only engineering based change I am trying to get onboard this new one.
  11. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,314
    Location:
    9114 S. Central Ave
    The USCG doesn't approve a system that has nothing to approve. Kind of a catch 22, since it has no discharge how can they approve the discharge?

    Install it so that the process water is recylced for flushing and laundry then look at it as a Type III, holding tank and it fulfills the regulations.
  12. VikHatBer

    VikHatBer New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    121
    Location:
    Miami, FL and the Keys
    2015 or 2020? Yachts?

    What if defensive positions like turrets took hold in yacht design among larger yachts ie 30 meters and above?? Crews would need training in anti-piracy maneuvers and there would be a small arsenal of guns, smoke bombs and noise machines on every yacht.

    I hope it doesn't come to that, but maybe those of us with pirate-rum-plunder dreams can actually live them.

    Please don't say any more regulation... There's enough of that already. I think these kinds of threads are fascinating.
  13. Clarisworkz

    Clarisworkz New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    I'm new to the world of Power Yachts, but if the Lazzara LSX92 is an example of current trends, then Yachts will be sleeker and more fuel efficient, and almost pilot-free ...

    And hopefully, more diesel-electric propulsion models will be made available. :)
  14. VikHatBer

    VikHatBer New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    121
    Location:
    Miami, FL and the Keys
    Not my style at all. Don't like the express-looking yachts too much. I like boats designed more around functionality than uber-Italian style.

    I foresee motor sailors and trawlers taking over the yacht industry...
  15. Clarisworkz

    Clarisworkz New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    I agree with that. I like yachts with Flybridges etc, as you have better control of the vessel because your field of vision is greater (generally 320 degrees).

    It was only because Lazzara added a flybridge to the 92, that it attracted my attention.

    For use around harbours and waterways and rivers and some off-shore, I'd have to go with the Lazzara. It's striking looks and sleekness are eye-catching.

    But for ocean passage, well I love the Nordhavn series and the Grand Banks series. Although Nordhavn have it over GB in terms of long range and functionality.

    It will be interesting to see what these two makers come up with design-wise in the future.

    They both need to do some R&D on diesel-electric though.
  16. SAB

    SAB New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    More catamaran Superyachts will be built. :rolleyes:

    Attached Files:

  17. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,384
    Location:
    My Office

    Why is this?
  18. Dan Evans

    Dan Evans Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    125
    Location:
    Port Townsend
    I dont think there is any more R&D to be done on diesel electric systems, sure future systems will be more efficient but whenever you convert energy from one form to another you will lose some. I cant see diesel electric becoming popular because of the added weight and loss in efficiency. Its possible for this energy to be gained by solar/wind/tide generation but then there is the problem of the weight of all that energy and the lifespan of the batteries it would require.

    Dan

    By the way, where can I find more info on this 50m powercat?
    thanks
  19. battboy

    battboy New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Nevada
    First of all what is you concern with weight refer to? Current Lithium battery technology is 1/4 the weight of any SLA system and far superior to any performance. Regarding more info I suggest you contact the designer. His website is: http://www.sabdes.com/

    Hope this helps you.
  20. Codger

    Codger YF Wisdom Dept.

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    924
    Location:
    Western Canada
    2015.. perhaps a little too soon.
    2020 xx/electric. Hybrids but more along the lines of what is the most efficient and what is available at the time. Being able to choose a fuel depending upon location, cost and availability will be more of a consideration.
    Final drive being electric gives you the options of powering with any of a number of power sources.

    Someone will actually be smart enough to make a call and have this built.
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/16786-post106.html

    By 2040 the largest marina that will be available for those that wish to live aboard at a reasonable cost will be on the coast of Libya. UK taxes will be so high by then that the Freedom of the Seas will be permanently berthed at that marina and half of it will be converted to a distillery run by escaped Lagavulin employees.



    Of course these are the thoughts of someone that bought forward at over a hundred bucks a barrel. I'd like to say that it was brilliance and foresight that saved me from that one but it was having a project put on hold and then having someone else offer to buy those forwards.