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What is the average age to retire from yachting?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Joe Deepwater, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    NO, ride quality is not debatable. Ride improved tremendously around 2000 with cad/cam drawings and tank testing and so forth throughout the industry. I've run several HUNDRED classic Hatteras MY's (say prior to 1988), great in a head sea, nothing you want to be in, in a beam sea or following sea. Same with others in that era.

    If a Detroit Diesel isn't leaking oil, it's simply because it is out of oil.

    You're not understanding, there are some construction methods that you just cannot fix on the older boats. Such as no sealed bilges.....Detroit diesel oil in the bilge water, exhaust smell, sewage, and smell from the engine room permeates through the entire boat, because the bilge water runs through the entire boat. It's a monthly battle of trying to keep the bilges clean and no smell. Newer boats are compartmentalized in regards to the bulkheads and what gets spilled in the engine room for example, does not wash into the living quarters...…

    If I deliver a 1980's boat, after 3 days of just running and even though you don't smell anything inside the boat, (especially with split engine rooms) all of your clothes, even the ones in your suitcase.....will smell like a Detroit diesel engine room.

    And, when you're done rehabbing one of these old boats, and dumping $100k into it and a years worth of blood, sweat, and tears, it will hardly be worth more than you paid for it......that's where the rub is. They've gotten too old and too old looking for people to want to do it anymore.

    Right now the yacht industry is at a peak, most good builders have orders out to 1-2 years. There is a real shortage of any decent yacht for sale from 2000 or newer. That is what people want, heads that flush properly, electronic diesels that start right away, don't smoke out the marina on start up, and you can have a conversation when you're underway. Boats that don't smell like sewage/diesel/ or exhaust when you walk in the salon door, modern appliances and technology.

    Now, you have to understand that most of these 53' MY's and stuff had full time Captains back in the day that kept up on keeping bilges clean and this and that, but at their current price point that's not the case, and it's also not the case for most any 53' MY in the US anymore. So people want yachts that don't have to be babysat or need countless hours spent on maintenance, keeping bilges clean and 8 volt batteries filled with water and stuffing boxes tightened and packed.....and etc. etc.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  2. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    It sounds that as someone who just gets paid to drive the thing you don't care much for them, and the shortcomings are just an annoyance in your professional life. I have similar sentiments for "my" airplane. I try not to have to use the lavs other than standing up and my clothes stay in the garage to air out from those three days too.

    Seriously, an old Hatt sounds like fun. Mind you, there's a 62 Land Rover sitting in my garage.... The ride sucks, you freeze your ass off in winter in the thing, and you will be covered in grease and oil from being under there fixing things by the time you arrive. A Hatt sounds perfectly palatial compared to that.

    I've operated boats for many decades too. Eau de Detroit beats the smell of a polypropylene UV trashed interior any day. I know how to keep the heads from smelling (too much) and segregating bilges and keeping them painted and diapered is something I do for fun.

    Like I said, I'm not your typical buyer.
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Ya sound like a good ole kid to me. Welcome to the real life. Some folks just don't get it.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Some of us weren't born in the days others of you so love to still live in. What one considers the good old days, another considers ancient history.

    With most things though, the good old days were never quite as good as remembered. Fortunately, our brains filter out a lot of the bad over time.

    Even just going back to my first boat, a 1983 17' Searay, as a 13 year old at the time, it was the most exciting and best boat ever. I saw one about 20 years later and just stared in confusion as it seemed nothing like my memory of it. While the older boats hold special places in the hearts of older boaters, they can't match the ride and performance of today's models.
  5. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Having spent over 200k (and I m not finished) on repowering, refitting and redesigning the interior of an almost 50 year old 53 Hatteras MY.. let me tell you I have no regrets!! It s going to take another 100/150k to finish it but when I m done you couldn’t give me a <whatever> of equivalent size for free.

    There is a lot more to a boat than speed or fuel efficiency.
  6. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    Jack is smiling in his grave.
  7. Joe Deepwater

    Joe Deepwater Member

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    No investment at all. I know it's an expense. I don't see how researching the market trends could be a bad idea.
  8. Joe Deepwater

    Joe Deepwater Member

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    Objection! Anecdotal! ;-)
  9. Joe Deepwater

    Joe Deepwater Member

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    Yep, I too am guessing 5-10 years.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  10. Joe Deepwater

    Joe Deepwater Member

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    Agreed.

    Supply and Demand. Younger boaters can't afford them/don't value them at those prices. The economy is strong and more ppl are moving south to be near the ocean, so it would seem to be the perfect opportunity to be a seller's market, not a buyer's market. Yet, there seems to be a glut. Some of these larger 70+ footers have been on the market for years for +/- 1M. I saw one the other day that has been on for over 2500 days, or 7 years. Who is going to buy these boats? Especially during the next recession?
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    It's a great annoyance when you have just spent 10 hours running the boat on a delivery (day after day) and then have to spend an hour every night in a toasty engine room fixing things, cleaning up messes, tightening bolts on valve covers and blowers trying to mitigate oil leaks on detroits with 400 hours SMOH because of the gaskets, etc. etc. Pouring a gallon of oil into the various machinery every day. Trying to get oil out of the bilges. etc. etc. I can run a newish MY over 10-14 days...….maybe pour a gallon total into ALL of the machinery combined in the entire trip of 800 NM's and not deal with any of the fixes and issues.

    Neither does a yacht owner. They want to be at dinner with their wife and kids or wandering down the beach with them. Not maintaining, maintenance heavy older technology.

    An old Hatt is fun, if you're going to just go out locally, live on it at your marina, or what half of the people who enjoy boating do. They're not fun on a delivery anymore. It's kind of like a 67' Corvette is fun to tool around Fort Lauderdale on a nice winter Saturday, but would be hell to drive to California in, yet a 2018 corvette would be comfortable, fun, faster, handles better, and is better in every aspect, and you'd get there without any breakdowns and headaches versus the 67'.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yes, ride, seakeeping, and safety. And a newer Hatteras excels at all of those over a classic one. I get what you're saying, and I understand where you are coming from, but you are in the minority of people wanting to dump $400k into a boat that's worth $200k if they decide they want to sell it, along with the year or two it took to redo the boat. People want to buy a yacht and go out and enjoy it, not deal with a bunch of sub contractors, yards, and surprises. Would I rather have a 2002 63' Hatteras MY in good condition over a redone classic 53' ABSOLUTELY.
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I'm still not sure about the better ride of newer boats.
    IMO Because of their flatter hull, less weight and hard strakes & chines new boats do go faster & preform well on flat water.
    If you like riding on a fishing bobber.
    BFD.
    In a better thought, some of us just like nice windows and open areas and don't like existing like most of the same Clorox bottles up the dock.
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    A heavy boat rides better than a lighter boat is a complete fallousy. It's physics, an object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by an opposite force. The heavier the boat, the more the hull has to counteract the effects of waves, where a lighter boat with a good hull design will ride right on top of it, instead of plowing through it. The faster a boat goes, the more stability it generally has and the less effect waves have on it, providing it can slice through a head sea.
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Hang on, need my big wading boots.
  16. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    I'm wishing you good luck and lots of enjoyment My only point is that buy the boat that suits you and your pocketbook now - whatever it is, its a depreciating asset no matter the trend, even if the trend can be accurately identified .
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  17. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Some times boats are perpetually on the market. The "selling" expenses of the 7 years in your example can be an aggressive write -off depending on what you include. Doesn't mean it actually for sale...
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    A heavier boat (planing boat) riding better is a complete fallacy from the 70's and 80's and so are keels which you don't see on any motoryachts anymore (for the most part). It's ALL about hull design and weight is counter productive to a good ride. I run 100-200 different yachts every single year. A custom Sportfish will always ride acres better than a Hatteras or Viking SF, even though they're 2/3 of the weight and Donald Blount designed both hulls. A Hatteras and Viking SF will handle much better when it's light on fuel, versus full of fuel. Almost every planing hull I've run, handles/rides better when lighter on fuel than full of fuel and that 5,000-10,000 lbs makes a huge difference in ride on the very same boat. On a MY, the less weight, the less force the stabilizers have to counteract.
  19. CaboFly

    CaboFly Member

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    Interesting thread and a number of different topics and conversations within the thread. I will add my 2 cents. In the Pacific Northwest when I am at Roche Harbor the avg size boat is 35ft to 100ft. If you walked the docks you would see that most owners are 50 to 75 years old. Definitely an older crowd but those are the folks who can afford the 50+ft boats. I always feel like by the time they can really enjoy the boat they have they are almost too old to do so. Then I go offshore fishing and the crowd gets younger but the boats get smaller. Most the big boats just cruise the Puget Sound. Most the guys that fish the Ocean are younger and trailer their boats that are 23ft to 30ft. I do both and find 40ft to be the perfect size for my needs of both cruising and fishing. I am 40 now and plan to boat until into my 70's. I wouldn't consider a boat bigger than 48ft until age 60 when I might cruise on her own bottom down to Cabo and back.

    Now the topic of boat age and where the value is in the market. I really likes seeing older restoration threads and legendary hulls being given love from their owners. You just see many of those examples and the iron pushing boat is an antiquated DD 8v92. As an owner operator I just have no desire to spend all my time and money pouring my love into a boat that at the end of the day still has engines pushing it that are so far past their time. In my opinion once you go older than 2004 in a Sportfish there is a real technology gap. From the engines being mechanical vs electronic and the systems on the boat being current technology vs older generation stuff that is no longer in production. Right now I think that 2006 to 2009 time frame is a good value and great place to shop if you are in the market and wanting the best value. Common Rail engines and newer system that many of which are the same as today. On those brands if you spend a few $ on a new enclosure and electronics you have a really nice boat with current systems that is very similar in capabilities and performance to the boats being built today and a boat with many years life ahead. The problem is the result of the 08' recession on the boat market has left a big hole from 2010 to 2014 with very few boats being built. Then you add in a few major hurricanes to major areas and used market is super thin. With Viking now moving into the smaller pocket Sportfish market and Cabo coming back along with Mag Bay making a splash I am very excited for the future. In a few years when I want to step into my next boat there will hopefully be some options to choose from both new and slightly used. That isn't the case today.
  20. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    I will be putting between 2500 and 3000 nm a year on my boat, and spending some quality time in my engine room is what I do after dinner. It's FUN. And I'd rather drive that 67 Vette than the new one. In fact, a few years ago I owned a 1952 Rolls Royce, did all my own work on it and we drove it hundreds and hundreds of miles to meets. It was FUN. (And no, we never actually "failed to proceed".)

    There are people that don't want to deal with it all, and you're one of them. But you have to believe the fact that SOME people enjoy the other way. People that will FIX their slate roof instead of tearing it off and replacing it with shingles. People that PAINT their wood sided house instead of slapping plastic over it. Some people LIKE that and ENJOY the work, the upkeep.

    Have you ever been to a Wooden Boat festival? See, if I REALLY want to go off the deep end (fiscally AND mentally) I go get myself a nice Trumpy. NOTHING is like the interior of a 70 year old wooden luxury yacht. You cannot duplicate that, even if you used all the same materials and resurrected the craftsmen that knew how to build it. That ambiance (which you would describe as wood rot and toxic mold) is unique. And I like it. Don't want to dedicate the time it would take, so I'll stick with a classic plastic.

    But by all means, preach the gospel of modern is better. The more Hatties there are unsold on the market the better choice I will have.

    (Oh, and on your physics lesson.... Yes, you are correct on the motion and force thing. But mass figures in there whether you like it or not. It's called "inertia")