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What happens to power boating when we run out of oil?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by CaptCook, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    That's only about 410 miles a day.

    Plenty of time to build cars, during your non-driving time.
  2. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
  3. snowboy

    snowboy New Member

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    Cdn Arctric in the summers, Sue and I are in the m
    got it.. thnx...suitably humbled.
  4. kkreicker1

    kkreicker1 Senior Member

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    I personal feel that biodiesel is the way to go. A) I am from the Mid-West and I know that we have the farmers to grow the right crops. If only they would stop sending them to third world countries. B) I have been told by a few people who solely run their personal cars off of biodiesel that it truly is better for our diesel motors.

    Personally I will be in biodiesel!
  5. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Yeah, that's it, I want to burn some crop generated, government subsidized, corporate farming conglomerate fuel instead of feeding the poor, that's the ticket....Especially in the name of the small to medium farmer - I don't buy it.

    Sorry for the sarcasm, but I'd rather first start recycling ALL the wasted/used cooking oil in this country before going down the path of taking food out of peoples mouths :(
  6. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    An interesting read.


    The secret, dirty cost of Obama's green power push.


    https://www.google.com/#q=The+secret,+dirty+cost+of+Obama's+green+power+push


    P.S.- Read about the Gulf Of Mexico and the dead zone, also.
  7. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    No matter how you slice it biodiesel is still very primitive and expensive source of energy.

    The scientific consensus seems to be the follwoing. The biggest clean energy sources of the future should come from:

    hydrogen fuel cells - unlimited sources, but so far it's difficult to obtain, expensive and problematic
    nuclear fusion - unlimited sources (salt water), but so far it's difficult to create, in early stages
    solar energy - limited only by lack of sun exposure, still not very efficient

    There is just nothing else known in this corner of Universe.
  8. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    There may be plenty of oil forever. Why?

    Well ... it does appear from my view that he use of oil is declining rapidly.

    1. it's most apparent when considering new construction. Radiant floors, thick insulation, solar, geo-thermal. The result is a home that uses approx 50% or less than the same home used to use.

    2. fuel cell vehicles. We learned that people don't like plugging cars in so now they designed a way to charge the vehicle without plugging in. Fuel cell.

    It's interesting to witness a real sea change.

    I however, am still a little old fashioned.

    My boat burns 66 gph diesel.
    My airplane burns 75 gph JetA.
    My cottage is old fashioned board & batton. Uninsulated .. but I have HVAC anyway.

    But ... I'm catching on.

    I sold the 6000 sq ft home years ago. The new house is horribly inefficient but less than 3000 sq ft.

    I'm considering an inverter for the boat so I don't need to run the genny 24/7.

    If hydrogen fuel cell works for automobiles, it will probably be showing up in yachts quickly.
  9. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

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    For starters, when we run out of oil, yachting is... the least of our worries.

    Now the most important concept people need to understand when talking fuel is the law of conservation of energy. Zero sum. What goes, must come.

    Oil is (almost) pure energy basically fountaining from the earth. It is absurdly efficient in a sense it doesn't take much of any other resource to use. What we use is the finite supply of it.
    (Coal was, and still is, "oil 0.5" in this sense)
    There is also nuclear power, which is similar in a sense that spending 1x of energy to drill/extract/purify uranium we get 100x (or what is it) of useful energy afterwards. However, it's been around for over half a century (pretty much 1/3 of time we really know oil) and still technology in this field is a bit... chernoshimy, so to say.
    Ah, and it's a boogeyman to go for all the green energy enthusiasts.

    Then there are river dams. Now here comes the fun: besides all earth's rivers combined energy being a limited within our current scope resource (e.g. most strong rivers around the globe are already dammed well, and yet hydro electricity doesn't overwhelm us), there are other costs: biosphere damage, dam flooded square etc.

    Then there's biodiesel, wind, tidal, solar etc, which are not "free" or "green", it's for the most part converting useful ground PLUS some phenomena to energy. While we don't yet know if it's possible to alter climate by excessive use of wind energy or to stop earth;s spin by tidal of same magnitudes, we are already running out of land.
    With a "good" half people starving on the planet, it takes a special kind of very "green" person to claim welldoing by using a biodiesel which is essentially a rotten, errm sorry processed, food.

    And then there's a "no-fuel" at all: hydrogen and batteries. Last I checked, neither appeared in energy-filled form naturally. So to extract a hydrogen from water or charge a battery we need to spend energy gotten elsewhere.
    Hence, btw, an electrocar running on electricity from 1950's-built coal plant is much LESS enviroment-friendly then a conventional euro-5 gas car.

    The takeaway is pretty sad: when "free" depletable energy in the form of fossils and fissile are gone, the world is going to change forever.
  10. sunchaserv

    sunchaserv Member

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    Sorry Arcanis. but many don't share your doom and gloom. Having spent my entire career in the resource production business I am amazed at the new discoveries and exploration techniques that have dramatically increased the world's knowledge and ability to make do.

    Just a mere 140 years ago the worry was not enough whale oil. We will adapt and maybe even return to the large (at the time) narrow and fuel efficient yachts of the 1930s. BTW, being in Russia during the winter can indeed lead to thoughts of dread, been there done that.
  11. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

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    There aint even snow yet here in Moscow, hardly a gloomy and doomy winter.

    However, I would like to point out that references to "new technologies" do not change the underlying logic above, unless that new technologies are perpetum mobile. Which is not very new, and not very technology either ;) It doesn't matter much in the end if we have enough oil for 50 years, 200 or 500 - you won't be able to efficiently argue that oil supplies are infinite. It also doesn't matter principally if we get 10kwt/hr per km2 of wind/solar plant fields or 100, since as I said, land is already running out, and population only grows.

    Most of "making do" we, humans, attribute to ourselves in 19-20-21th century directly comes from exploiting exhaustible resources on a massive scale - something humanity wasn't doing before. But yeah, in 18th century people weren't flying around the world all that much, and richest nobles had about the same amount of clothes as people living on welfare do now.
  12. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    This is very true. Humankind adapts very well to changing environment.
    50 years or 100, we will run out of fossil fuels and will need the alternative resource. I have no doubt it will be found. Will it be cheap? That's another story.

    Somebody and somehow will make it less affordable for sure either by monopolizing the production and levying high tax.

    Nevertheless, I would be more comfortable with $1/gallon diesel (or its new equivalent) than $4/gallon.