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What happens to power boating when we run out of oil?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by CaptCook, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. vwDavid

    vwDavid New Member

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    You are going to need to feed your fuel cells with H2 or a hydrocarbon, liquid or gas.
  2. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I am pretty sure that whatever fuel that may be cheaper to produce, it will be taxed to the same level as fossil fuel.

    Except sails, hopefully...:rolleyes:
  3. Chapstick

    Chapstick Member

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    Because not all electricity comes from fossil fuels, and the percentage that doesn't is increasing.

    If your car burns fossil fuels directly there's no escaping the fact: fossil fuels must be burnt (obviously!)
    But if your car runs on electricity at least you then have an energy chain that fossil fuels can be removed from.
  4. vwDavid

    vwDavid New Member

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    but remember... you still need lots of energy to refine the Silicone, Gallium, and Antimony for photo voltaics and lots of petroleum products to product the composite and structural materials used in wind generation towers not to mention rare earth magnets, and energy used in mining lead and lithium for batteries. And Copper. Big energy in mining and refining.

    So, if we don't start investing NOW in alternative energy in a BIG way there will be a HUGE price to pay and a HUGE gap to bridge when fossil fuels get really expensive (if they do). We need to think about alternative energy in construction and mining, and manufacturing...not just a few kw panels on your boat's pilot house.

    Alternative Electrical generation is great (wind, various solar, perhaps tidal, thermal, hydro...) but my personal opinion is that the hydrogen economy is a farce and that even liquid fed fuel cells and natural gas fuel cells still require fossil fuels (Where does purified methanol come form?). They are not really an alternative energy in my opinion. Just a venture capitol suck that should be redirected to real things perhaps like algea biodiesel or GTL liquid fuels, or enyzmatic biodiesel.

    How about a solar algea reactor on top of your pilot house that produces all the biodiesel your boat needs with sunlight and the CO2 from the exhaust pipe? That'd be cool...
  5. Chapstick

    Chapstick Member

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    Oil takes a lot of energy to extract and refine too.
    And the energy required to produce solar cells is less than the energy they output in their lifetime.

    Drilling for oil results in a net energy gain, but so do solar panels, wind farms, etc. The fact that renewable energy infrastructure can't magically be deployed for zero initial energy output (!) should be of no surprise to anyone, and is no reason to avoid renewable energy: NO energy source can be harvested by humans without an initial energy investment (oil, coal, solar, wind, wave, wood, nuclear, etc.)
    Even eating a hamburger that falls out of the sky into your lap requires energy to pick it up, eat it, and digest it before the net energy gain kicks in! :)


    On the topic of solar, here are a couple of solar powered vessels:

    Production line yacht Suncat 46: Luxury yacht with solar propulsion|SunCat 46
    A prototype cat with 60 pax capacity for future roles, that sailed around the world, Planet Solar: Tûranor PlanetSolar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And Wally is building this WHY solar hybrid yacht: WHY | Official website

    There's a way to go before compromises don't have to be made to avoid fossil fuels, but we're on the right track.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Solar Sailor has interested me for a long time. I'd love to actually ride on one and check it out.
  7. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Off topic

    GREAT Profile Picture CaptCook!
  8. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    Thank you. Love the Carolina flare.
  9. Dave Stranks

    Dave Stranks Member

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    That's what the guy that manufactured buggy whips said about the Model A
    Your cars wireless speedo & throttle cables that cost less than the cables
    what happened to all the neighbourhood garages were you took your car in every month and cars only lasting a 100 k

    We have a lot more grey matter out there now than when the first light bulb was invented and Information is transmitted in the blink of an eye and assessable.

    Oil will be used for other more important things like plastic or what ever; we might one day even look at it as a natural pollutant

    There will be a new source of energy tamed for use and there will always be some big changes hopefully for the better.
    That just the nature of the world as we have know it
  10. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    Can't open the Suncat for some reason, but Planet Solar is really cool. I wish they can make something like this on a smaller scale. If you have $15m (Euro), you should not be worried what fuel to put in your yacht. Can they make a yacht/boat like this for under a $1M?
  11. Chapstick

    Chapstick Member

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    Here's another (less useful) Suncat 46 link: SunCat 46 - luxury yacht without emission -- boot Trade Fair
  12. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    Wow.

    "SunCat 46 has a virtually unlimited traveling range due to the use of solar electricity. No further fuel costs occur. "

    I wish I could see a proof of that and a bigger cockpit for fishing, too.

    Any idea, how much the thing like this retail for?

    This must be the same:

    http://oceanshaker.com/2010/07/07/s...luxury-catamaran-powered-by-100-solar-energy/
  13. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    Horizon Group in cooperation with Thomas Meyer of Solar Water World AG started the first serial production of a luxury solarship for the world market. They presents their second ecofriendly yacht design, the SunCat 46, which will be powered by 100% solar energy.

    SunCat 46 features exterior styling by J.C. Espinosa who has developed a series of successful yachts. The layout includes a saloon, a galley, dinette, a helm station and an owner’s stateroom with an ensuite head with shower. The accommodation is spacious comfortable and compatible to the general motor yacht.

    High efficient battery packages store sufficient energy required for propulsion, mooring, and overall boating activities. SunCat 46 has an ultra low resistance hull design optimized for cruising efficiently with very limited power.

    The new catamaran will be the second yacht in the Horizon range of the solar powered boats. The first one, SunCat 23, was launched in March 2009. SunCat 23 is powered by a 2.8 kW electric outboard and is capable of running at 6 knots while carrying 12 passengers.

    Specification of the SunCat 46 Catamaran:

    LOA: 14.0 m/45’ 10”
    Beam: 5.0 m/16’ 5”
    Draft: 1.0 m/3’ 3”
    Motor: 2 x 8 kW
    Solar Panel: 3.2 kW
    Speed: 7.4 mph (12 kph)

    I think YF needs a new section on alternative-powered boats, starting with solar. :)
  14. Chapstick

    Chapstick Member

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    Fixed that!
  15. oceaneer

    oceaneer Member

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    Why dont I see LPG on this thread?
    All major shipping companies and engine makers are investing very heavily in this field and its pretty much the next "Fuel". Its still a fossil fuel but we have a huge amount of it. Lots of ferry companies have changed over to LPG vessels.

    As for the future of boating.. Yachting
    We are I hope going to see more reasonable boats develope with efficient hull shapes. No more Semi Planning Boxes that have a large fridges shape for the underbody.
    Running speeds are going to drop as we see in the commercial world, except for the uber rich of course.
    Hybrid propulsion systems, Heat recovery, and massive lithium battery banks are going to be standard.
    For the diesel we use every ounce of power will be extracted from it. Rather than our present state of using 1/3rd of the power and rejecting the rest either up the stack on into the cooling system..

    We are also going to see plug in yachts, fully electric with no internal combustion engines onboard. Just charge it on the dock at night.

    We are in a very cool time to watch some truly amazing technology develop.
  16. Chapstick

    Chapstick Member

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    Gas turbines are great, they have excellent power to weight ratios, but they're very expensive, and not very efficient at low loads. They're used in high speed ferries where the extreme need to keep weight down justifies the cost.

    I'm looking forward to this too!
  17. Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    No I have not driven one; do I need to drive one to have a question about it's track record? My point was to ask if Tesla is a proven product given it's issues. Google "tesla problems" and you'll find more than a few fire issues. Any new product has the potential to be a hit until problems surface- and those problems could derail it's success. Until those problems go away the product is not generally considered to be "proven". An example of a new product which is not yet totally proven might be the new "Dreamliner" aircraft.
    With any new technology there are folks which take a liking to it- and they are willingly looking at the potential and extrapolating that to mean proven results. They kinda romanticize it. Anything "hybrid" or "green" seems to be high on the list for this type of behavior. My father taught me that people talk about potential when they can't talk about results.
    Not that I want the Tesla to be failure.
  18. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    Just to give you some facts if they can help you understand the new technology:

    1. The first hybrid car, Toyota Prius has been on the roads since year 2000 and never had an issue with its drive system. My family has been driving one since 2005 and done nothing but oil changes.
    2. The first hybrid SUV, Toyota Highlander never had any mechanical issue either and I've been driving one since 2006. Aside from inverter recall (free fix), only oil changes. There is over 155k (miles) on both.
    3. Tesla has been selling their Roadster and Models S non-stop from 2008 and has been ever expanding and building its charge station network. I didn't even here the problems you mentioned.

    If any of these vehicles had "problems" and/or were just "romanticized" they would have gone to junk yard by now. Yet, they are best selling cars in their category and not only because of their fuel-efficiency. The command premium prices b/c they are comfortable, high-tech inside and out, don't depreciate as much as other cars and pay you back in gas savings year after year.
  19. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Certainly nothing new about LPG. Local governments went to it decades ago. Just like CNG, it has it's advantages and disadvantages. I remember when it was the next new thing in my childhood and then my father talked about the test cars Chrysler or Dodge had before that. Still it's not entered into widespread use. So can it be the next "Fuel"? Perhaps. But it's not new and still lots of issues to be resolved.

    In many cases the entire fueling of the world needs looking at in total, not individual segments. For instance, the whole issue of Nuclear Electric Power Plants impacts available fuel for other uses. What if solar was required for all new homes and more substantial incentives given for older homes? That would certainly change the entire fuel balance over time. That's one of the few "perfect" savers as it doesn't use any of the limited resources. In turn, it frees up substantial fossil fuels.
  20. oceaneer

    oceaneer Member

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    Hi Chap..
    LNG is not just for turbines.
    Most engines are being retrofitted or redesigned to run on it.
    I was commenting on regular reciprocating engines. The engines that I have on my current project, (wartsila 20 series, and Cat C32) Are all possible to retrofit to LNG.
    Thanks
    Oceaneer