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What defines an Expedition Yacht?

Discussion in 'Popular Yacht Topics' started by YachtForums, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. Kevin

    Kevin YF Moderator

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    That's the *ahem* family-friendly interpretation of its nickname. LOL :rolleyes:
  2. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Isnt that just what you would expect on this fine family friendly forum?:D
  3. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    aircraft nicknames

    The American English Language has born some interesting nicknames for airplanes. The Lockheed C-5 Galaxy was or is called FRED

    (Fantastic Ridiculous Economic Disaster)
  4. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    I didn't really want to encourage this 'far out' thinking on this particular subject thread, but since HTM09 and Karo have brought up a few examples I thought I might as well add this one I just happened across on another forum.

    CEROS: National Defense Center of Excellence for Research in Ocean Sciences

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  5. kkreicker1

    kkreicker1 Senior Member

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    I almost feel like this boat should be on the "ugly" boat thread.
  6. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    It looks like a new Klingon Bird of Prey :).

    By looking at it, I would say its starts out as a Trimaran in displacement mode and when getting faster, it lifts off the water and rides on its forward wing and this type of saucer. But these little props behind the saucer will not get her on the plane. For the high speed modus, there must be annother propulsion. Would be interesting to find out, how they are stabilizing that "Thing", when surfing. Are there any other pictures or info about this UFO?
  7. chuckb

    chuckb Senior Member

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    There's a video at Navatek Ltd., also one for a larger scale mid foil named Sea Flyer (Navatek Ltd.). Couldn't find the videos on youtube... only on the corporate site...
  8. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    It is the old dream of shipbuilders to get the hull out of the water during high speed in order to reduce the power requirements and smoothen the ride. The flyer is basically a SWATH with the difference, that it is rather not relying on the buoyancy of the torpedos, then creating hydronamic lift with this wingtype airfoil under the hull.

    The problems are: complicated design, unpracticable due to draft, expensive to build and inherent unstable, needs computer control for stability. Would not like to hit a big wave with that flyer at speed. Only the military can afford things like this.

    If you really want to safe energy by lifting the hull out of the water, you need to make use of the ground effect. First invented by the famous (German :)) professor Alexander Lippisch in 1971, but only put into practise by the Russian Navy. Thanks god, the cold war is over and we dont see those monsters anymore.

    Remember, per definition, those things are no airplanes. Because they are unable to leave the ground effect, they are ships. You only need a skipper licence, no flying licence :).

    But the jack of all trades device does not excist. The combination of the stability and useful load of a full displacement hull with the speed of a planning hull and the fuel consumption of a ground effect vehicle has jet to be invented.

    The ground effect, as we learned from those guys and the Russian conclusions :rolleyes:.

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  9. chuckb

    chuckb Senior Member

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    WIG craft

    There are three levels of IMO WIG (Wing in Ground) craft, Type A is limited to operations no more than a wingspan above the water surface, no license required. Type C is capable of flight above 400' and requires a pilots license. Type B is the interesting niche, no pilots license required. The Russians couldn't get their big WIGS under bridges, so they explored having them be able to "hop" into low level sustained flight. Keep in mind that all the efficiency benefits of WIG go away once you're out of ground effect, but the reserve is good if the wave heights are up!

    Type B creates an interesting trade space.... especially in comparison to helicopters. Much simpler to build and maintain, less licensing requirements, but capable of a good subset of the typical over water helo missions (shorter hops to platforms and vessels, above the waves).

    Check out Aquaglide 5 - YouTube... about half way through the craft shown is not only traversing water, but snow and flatlands. Talk about "expedition craft"!

    But... I'm not aware of a single example of a WIG manufacturer sustaining operations for very long. Apparently the sales pitch doesn't translate to the real world! :cool:
  10. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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  11. carelm

    carelm Senior Member

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    These are pictures of the Caspian Sea Monster. Back in the mid 70's the Russians were playing around with the WIG craft. At the time I was an intelligence officer in the US Army and we went nuts trying to figure WTF they were.:D The Russians made only a couple of them before giving up on the concept. The remaining planes are rusting out in a museum somewhere in Russia as I recall.
  12. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    WIG crafts or Ground effect planes

    Sorry for shortening my post. You are correct with the different levels of those machines. The first example during the tests for the German military 1971 was found to difficult to control and the tests were abandoned. Later wind tunnel test revealed, that only one configuration was stable and easy to fly (drive). It was the tandem wing type and was a WIG type A, which automatically took off from the water and leveled by itself at optimum height above the water. As their is no pitch control, even our bureaucrats concider this a boat :).

    But your are correct again, up to now, nobody has found any pratical use for one of those "things" and no real mentionable example is under production.

    1.) the X-113 test plane, 2.) the tandem wing WIG type A

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  13. chuckb

    chuckb Senior Member

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  14. discokachina

    discokachina Senior Member

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  15. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    His was an actual plane, capable of normal flight; although, never allowed to be properly tested. Don't you just love politicians. They did similar to Jack Northrop.

    Hughes H-4 Hercules - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Northrop YB-49 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Hopefully, you should be returned to your regularly scheduled Thread: What defines an Expedition Yacht? :D
  16. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    WIG plane

    The reason, I brought up the WIG planes, was to express my opinion, that any method of reducing the resistance of a hull by lifting it out of the water, is only half the way towards the ideal. The ideal solution is a hull, that floats (flies) above the water in the ground effect without any contact to the water. Any type of "Hydrofoil" is only a compromise.

    The only usefull type of a WIG plane is the type A, because it is a stable platform and simple to control. A monkey could fly it. One lever for "noisy and quiet" and one lever for "left and right", thats it. As soon as this "Thing" is able to leave the ground effect, its getting more complicated, to expensive, attracting to much bureaucrats (aviation rules and laws) and is leaving all advantages behind.

    The most amazing fact on WIG planes is the little amount of power needed, to sustain stable flight. Any pilot, who has flown a low wing aircraft, remembers his first landings and his surprise, how far this plane could float down the runway during the flare on idle power, before it settled down.

    I believe, there are commercial tasks for such a WIG plane, which would be profitable. A (very) fast ferry, SAR duties or enviromental patrol. A cruising speed of app. 100 Kts, with only a fraction of power needed, in comparison to an conventional airplane or a turbine powered boat, is possible.

    This Iranian Kamikaze WIG attack planes look like a direct copy of this 1971 testbed from Germany. This unstable toy (prototype) was almost impossible to fly in the ground effect for more than a few minutes on manual flight. The pilot had then to climb up in order to calm down himself. As soon as one this lame ducks would attack a modern (US) warship, it would be a juicy target for the Phalanx or Goal Keeper weapon systems. Any missile would be a wast of money.

    The problem with any new system is, we have a saying in Europe:

    If you want to make a small fortune in no time, just invest a large one in the aviation industry :).

    Below two examples of Hydrofoil boats. 1.) a Pegasus class fast PT boat of the US Navy (Top speed 48 Kts), 2.) A hydrofoil passenger ferry made in Russia. Greatings from Disco Volante.

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  17. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Adventurous Lady, Patti Seery, .....Explorer

    Well I wonder about that?

    It seems to me they originally concentrated on just vessels themselves, but now have some interesting articles in the mag. One that caught my attention recently was in their Apr issue. "Lunch with Patti Seery"

    Thirty years ago, American-born Patti Seery became involved with the Asmat and Dani tribes of Indonesia’s remote Irian Jaya province while working for some of the world’s leading institutions of cultural preservation, including The Smithsonian and The Art Institute of Chicago. Patti takes great pride in these and other ethnic communities across the vast archipelago who have adopted her into their villages with full traditional rituals. Yet she considers her most successful cultural ‘bridges’ to be her two handcrafted wooden phinisi ships: the 50-metre, five-cabin Silolona and the 40-metre, three-cabin Si Datu Bua. Under Patti’s guidance, passengers on these luxurious sailing ships gain unprecedented access to natural and cultural treasures, from the Andaman Islands through the Mergui Archipelago, Komodo, the Savu Sea, the original Spice islands of Banda and Raja Ampat – and some of the world’s most remote and endangered cultures among the welcoming peoples of Papua.


    I googled her name this evening to find that reference, and came up with a few other references. This is an Adventurous women !

    http://www.silolona.com/pdf/SEAY_PAPUA.pdf

    Creating the Ultimate Indonesian Charter Pinisi

    A Cruise Aboard “Silolona” | Karen Kelly | All Yachts Worldwide
  18. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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  19. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Complete with its 16v396TB94 Engines, what a steal.

    MTU will happily build a new engine for you or rebuild one or two of those but it will be a lot more than the whole boat costs.

    I was told I was wrong when I posted that these engines were still available new here a while ago.

    I have since been in the MTU Facility in Friedrichshafen and seen new ones waiting delivery and been told they will build you whatever you want. It is up to you if you can use it in whatever applcation you want it for.

    They will also happily build new ones to replace existing engines for refits.