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What defines an Expedition Yacht?

Discussion in 'Popular Yacht Topics' started by YachtForums, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    I am referring to that most expedition yachts are elegantly "styled" if not modeled after heavy displacement or work boat designs... for example the motor yacht "MY Issue" now "Beluga" but that might not be best for the use intended.

    Moonen 114 Explorer My Issue - YouTube

    Endeavor was the 18th Century archetype of an explorer yacht.

    But most yacht based "exploring" does not take place in the middle of the ocean... it takes place close to shore. Maybe the passages to the areas to be explored are across the ocean but the real enjoyment and object of the exploring adventure in yachting is near land. The equates with shallow draft and ability to get in close to the places visited.

    Therefore, perhaps the Seafaris yacht type yacht might be more practical but not meet the fairytale expectations of a conventionally styled and conceived explorer yacht. It is a shallow draft stable platform for exploring... and I expect would do just fine in passage between sites.

    So my ideas on the explorer concept are evolving.

    Through one must give credit to Mr Van der Velden for a very attractive yacht styled in the traditional and accepted explorer model.
  2. tirk

    tirk Member

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    Hmmm. HMS Endeavour was a converted flat-bottomed collier (originally the Whitby Cat), designed for inshore work up and down the coast. Not purpose built, not primarily designed for blue-water.
  3. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    Perhaps someone missed that memo. :D

    Gee, what purpose did a collier serve in those days?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collier_(ship)
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    They served exactly as the name suggests by carrying Coal.

    Their purpose was a lot better described by the use of the word Collier than many yachts that have the term expedition in their descriptions.
  5. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Seems to me Endeavor did not serve very long in any particular seafaring application... ending up in biological melt down clogging up some port mainly...

    Maybe I should be posting about that in some live aboard thread somewhere.
  6. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    14 years from launch to being scuttled in an unknown condition is not such a long time agreed.

    What the vessel did in that 14 years is quite remarkable when you consider how far from its original design and purpose it was transformed and utilised.

    There were many ships lost going around the Horn in those and later days particularly when sailing west about, something Endeavour managed and survived.

    Not bad for a flat bottomed Collier was it.
  7. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    The first boat is THE best expedition ship in the world: Polarstern.

    The second boat is THE best (at the moment) yacht in the world: Topaz.

    The best expedition yacht in the world must then be the combined best of both.:D

    Attached Files:

  8. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    You can have an Explorer yacht of any design.

    That's not what this thread is about. It's about what makes a great Expedition Yacht.

    Heck, an old family friend set off from England with his wife and 2 toddlers onboard a 26ft wooden Folkboat to explore South America. He's still doing it 30 years later and has written books about it.

    But, as I can attest to, he's as mad as a box of frogs. :rolleyes:
  9. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    I suppose that is my point.

    Anyway the point is that Endeavor... being the type it was was perfect as could be found for exploring... for its day... the British Admiralty was always a practical lot. So selecting the Endeavor was because its object was or is mainly close to shore work... where a stable platform is best... and they needed lots of cargo space for the type of voyage... but shallow draft... and likely it was cheap.

    In either Endeavor's case or Seafaris case they were not primarily designed for mid ocean exploring... but for close to shore use like exploring. So they may be near perfect technical solutions for their time.

    Now-a-days I suppose the definition of explorer yacht leans more to a deep blue ocean going single hull heavy displacement round bottom vessel designed more for blue water transits where it will spend little of its actual useful life. No British Admiralty in that selection process.

    I was not insinuating Endeavor was the best blue ocean designed vessel or what the Admiralty would choose for that purpose. I did not know it was a coal hauler... which was interesting information... just an inland cargo vessel.

    I think in yachting certain styles predominate whether they are practical or not.

    Brian E. has taken flak, herein, as he preferences leaning toward CATAMARANs... but that might very well be the best solution for an "explorer yacht". But that does not fit the conventional style preferences popular... why he has gotten some flak.

    I think the SWATH and SWASH concepts are better for ocean transits and exploring places with deep water near shore... but few owners now-a-days actually make the transits... don't have time. So they often fly in... so though they may have technically interesting aspects (that draws me in) they would not be as good as a traditional CATa... or TRI... maran.
    And, being a snail/sail boat guy I already know deep keels are not the best for finding nice anchorages... I am not now adventurous enough to go around the world exploring. But it is very nice to be anchor close to shore off the beaten path.
  10. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    True... and they ladies around my house... pick Topaz...

    But with a float in... dry dock tender bay that can be pumped out in a couple minutes so they can enter and exit the tender on 'solid ground'... now to solve the other end of the tender transit!

    I should say, I cannot in my little mind differentiate between Expedition or Explorer yacht... they are interchangeable terms to me.

    And, no I see no purpose in a submarine tender on the yacht.
  11. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    This what my ladies would go for...
    [​IMG]

    This is NOT...
    [​IMG]
  12. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,
    Both photos are of the same vessel.
  13. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    I know...

    Catamaran Seafaris... I posted the link to earlier.
  14. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Explorer or Expedition Yacht

    The precise distinction between an Explorer and an Expedition Yacht is not easy. Especially for a non native english tongue like me. Even some dictionaries explain one word with the other.

    The best I could find and it describes the way I understand this difference is the following:

    Explorer (latin origin: explorator). Exploration is the act of searching or traveling around for the purpose of discovery of recources or information. The Explorer must then be the person or boat doing so!?

    Expedition (latin origin: expeditio). Research trip or journey of discovery to remote or unexploited areas. That could mean, an Explorer Yacht goes on an expedition.:confused:

    Who is who and what is what?
  15. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    Welcome to the wonder that is the English language. :)

    Why use one word when 19 others will work just as well.

    To me, and I speak a little English, the two words can be interspersed to mean the same thing.
  16. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    Karo, I still don't see why you are so in love with the seafaris. You've said that it's maybe not to cross deep oceans. Does it have exceptional capability? I think most yachts are designed to go a few hundred miles, and slide around some islands or coasts somewhere. That's sort of what people do with boats of all sizes most of the time. Simply being made to do that I don't think makes an explorer/expedition yacht.

    HTM, the two words are almost synonymous. I don't think one has to be significantly different from the other.
  17. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    That is my point... expedition or explorer yachts are really design styles... something that the designers and yacht builders use to entice the 'working class' or 'peasant class' affiliated yacht owner or maybe those owners wishing to be considered macho or adventurous or even practical.

    Though that last "the practical yacht owner" is only a figment of imagination... as really very very few yachts are really practical endeavors.

    SO if it floats your boat that it is styled as a working boat... that likely it will never see even one clinker or barrel of oil... or trawler net... or load of blubber that is fine.

    You could very well use most any yacht for exploring or please get away expeditions. Of course, you might point out about going to the Arctic or Antarctic and need an "ice classed' vessel. Well that is fine too but a unless you intend to break through a new NW passage no yacht Explorer, Expedition or whatever is going to be really much better than another.

    Likely HTMO9's two examples are really interchangeable unless you plan to do "work" but I know of no working class person who can afford either a Topaz or Polarstern for that matter for pleasure use. Or, know no one that owns a yacht to do work unless it is a charter operation for hire.

    My comment about the catamaran Seafaris is that likely it works very well for its real use... and is likely a very stable platform at anchor that will please the ladies... though that submergible stern platform may not appeal to the over 65 set. I imagine it works as well as my example of My Issue / Beluga for that purpose. The only real difference is a matter of taste, size or some specification you have to have. I imagine as kids we had more fun in a blow up raft grandpa tethered out for us to play in/off than the yacht is was tethered to.
  18. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    Alright, so 90%+ of motor yachts have relatively low range and low capability to go off the beaten track. Since you don't think that that bars them from being considered expedition yachts, what word do you suggest that we use to concisely describe boats that have enhanced range, reliability, provisioning space, and sea keeping ability? In the past people decided to call those yachts expedition yachts. Since you think we should throw that word away on cosmetic features what do you propose that we replace it with?
  19. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Didn't you notice that German also has a list of words with the same meaning.

    The word leg springs to mind, where as in English it can have a varied meaning depending upon the context in which it is used, our Teutonic friends however would not stand for this, they have a different word for leg for each way its used.

    BTW: Here is another well known Collier that had a short life and ended up in DJL.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Bounty