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What defines an Expedition Yacht?

Discussion in 'Popular Yacht Topics' started by YachtForums, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Where do you put a tender on that boat? I don't classify a yacht as an expedition yacht unless you can put multiple tenders on an expedition yacht that size......An Expedition yacht is for exploring places other people can't get to......IMO.
  2. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    Check out the tender garage on the bottom deck

    You could probably also wrangle some small man powered craft onto the top deck too.
  3. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    That was just an answer for that "why does a retired couple need a 200 ft poweryacht?" Capt J, you are absolutely correct. 75 ft can not be a true expedition yacht. It is a minimum effort circumnavigator. Thats why we ended up with app. 200 ft.

    The EP 77 has 3 possibilities for tender storage. If you want the internal tender storage, there will be no adequate crew cabin(s). See below.

    But it is still a nice boat. A true live onboard. And a true semi custom. You just cant have it all.

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  4. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Lone Ranger

    I do not believe they changed the engines. They got overhauled and maybe reduced in output (by putting a bolt into the throttle quadrant;)).

    In her later state of her life as a tug, Simson and its sisters got there props modified. Cordnozzles were added to the hull and the bollard pull went up to app. 180 metric tons. Remember one of those powerfull modern harbour tugs has about 50 to 60 metric tons of bollard pull. That biest could have pulled a complete pier into pieces.
  5. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Mother Ship, sport fishing

    I could imagine her as a 'mother ship' to a worldwide sportfishing group.
  6. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Style vs. Function

    Long Ranger... Lone Ranger whatever has to the ugliest yacht right after the rebuild of Acajou after the breaking up on the rocks problem!

    But it goes to show selling for 750,000 rather than 42 million or some crazy number the crazy state of yacht brokerage and yachting in some way. Reading over HTMO9's posts it was an old rust bucket tug... and about the ugliest thing in the world. Yet someone turned it into a yacht... then thought they could sell it to some rich boob... who got rich by being a boob... and a chump... ?

    But this goes to the heart of the matter... style vs function. Which is more important? Looking over Beluga / MY ISSUE two things came to mind:

    First, my Scottish grandfathers color pictures of harpooning Beluga whales in the shallows with the eskimos and the accompanying bloody mess... yes he did that... and even went out on in a skin boat and harpooned a large walrus... . And, then comes back all my "fond" memories of tagging along on some of other safari/hunts and crawling around inside some huge stinking beast or being covered in blood so it would "toughen me up" with nowhere to wash off but a hot stinking mud hole... that now I understand is a festerment of disease and nasty parasites which brings up the subject of yacht brokers... so maybe I am not too fond of adventures in remote far away expeditions... boat or otherwise... and I get sea sick in rough conditions proving there is "something wrong with that boy"! So will I travel to freezing windswept arctic locals or exotic sweaty sink holes... NO.

    Second, but really what is style of the boat? If you are on the boat all you experience are the details... inside or out. You don't see the shape and style. The slopped back pilothouse windows are not as practical or comfortable to use as the straight up or reverse rake windows. The shapes you see from a distance are not experienced on the boat... and when they are they are not of any practical use... either take up space... harder for the crew to clean... or are in some cases dangerous. To me it has to fit and be useable to me. I will never own a J-boat because the "trip rail" though beautiful is dangerous as is the spinnaker pole. Oh, you can add railings like "Ranger" but that sort of defeats the whole idea of the thing... as does pilothouse accommodations.
    Anyway, a yacht needs to look good and be finely fitted for the yacht experience but I wonder on style... if that matters... how is the experience you have that matters.
  7. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    @Karo, I think that M/Y Lone Ranger is quite an attractive vessel. She isn't a glossy express cruiser, but she is pleasantly visually balanced. It's also important to remember that she was refit almost 20 years ago. What happened in the last 20 years has a huge impact on her value, but also the person who did the refit got to pull years of use out of her, so even if she has economically depreciated in value that doesn't mean that she was a bad decision. Not everyone who sells a vessel intended just to sell it when they bought it, nor to make someone a chump for it.

    @HTM, This source suggest that she has 8800 HP installed That seems like it wouldn't be enough to manage a bollard pull of 180 metric tons.
  8. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Lone Ranger (ex Simson)

    The yacht Lone Ranger has in fact only 8805 HP and a bollard bull of "only" 135 metric tons.:rolleyes:

    Simson was the second tug of a series of four identical ocean going salvage tugs of the Hamburg Salvage and Towing Company. The tugs had more than 13000 HP and were modified with Cord nozzles and the bullard pull was raised to 179 metric tons. How Simsons propulsion was modified later in its yacht conversion, I can not find out at the moment. But 8805 HP is still rediculous for a yacht of this size, I must say.

    The picture shows one of her sisters on her standby position in the German bay.

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  9. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    This source suggests a max speed of 18 knots which is what they are doing with all that power. It would also suggest that they haven't got Kort Nozzles on anymore, which would probably smooth out the ride considerably.

    A 40m express yacht would have about that much HP. If you want to go fast you need the horses.
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    In my opinion, what you've said above is exactly the difference between the EP and a true expedition yachts. At 76' you could make both the Northern Marine and Nordhavn work as true expedition yachts. Both of those boats will carry adequate boats to fish, dive and explore both shore based and land based and still do a circumnavigation. The 76' Northern Marine "Endurance" has done it. It went up to Seattle, down to South America, Fort Lauderdale, NY and now is over in the med on it's own bottom. I'm sure some Nordhavn's that size have as well. Obviously you can't carry a 35' Center Console or larger like a 200' but given the time, you can still do what you want to do with the weather limitations of a 76' or 80'.
  11. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Cordnozzle

    I have no knowledge about the technical changes made on Simson, when it became Lone Ranger. Whether it was up- or downsized or whatever.

    But the Cordnozzle is really not ment for speed. The Cordnozzle with its specific airfoil has the purpose of increasing the thrust of a given prop. This thrust is measured in tons of bollard pull. More thrust does not always mean more speed. A prop can only produce a certain amount thrust per square meter of effective prop area without cavitating. You can not increase thrust by just increasing RPM or pitch. Cavitation and / or blade stall will be the result.

    If you want more thrust, you need more diameter, which means more draft. A fixed pitch standard prop can produce about 500 KW per square meter of prop area (rule of thump). High tech props or VPPs can produce a bit more. With a prop nozzle this can be increased significantly. But the nozzle adds drag. A ship without nozzle would indeed be faster than a ship with the same HP but with nozzle.

    Above 15 to 18 Kts, the Cordnozzle becomes counterproductive. For higher speeds the Rice nozzle (which has a different airfoil) is the better choice. She is used for large fishing trawlers which want to be faster in their ferry to the fishing grounds and still have sufficient pull, when trolling. But the hulls of this tugs with their high block coefficent were not build for speed. Typical pulling speed for those big tugs was only a few Kts.

    Converting an old workhorse into a yacht is always a compromise. The last basis I would choose for a yacht conversion, is a large used up salvage tug with oversized engines, even if it is a mean looking beast. This big engines do not make him fast, just noisy and thursty, very thursty. Oil rig standby vessels or survey ships, fishing trawlers, even former military vessels are the better choice.

    Cheers
  12. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Nordhavn 76 FPH

    That is the Nordhavn 76 forward pilot house. The one I like the most. Are they still building this version? All other info is only showing the aft PH. You are right, that is a true expedition yacht, but with much more workhorse than yacht appeal. Great boat.

    The other company I do not know.

    Copyright Nordhavn

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  13. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    I agree a used up salvage rust bucket ugly mean old tug... does not a yacht make.

    However, for example, looking at Big Fish expedition yacht, around 45m /150 ft., makes me wonder why anyone needs bigger. At 60m / 200 ft. the thing is like a cruise ship. That just seems really unmanageable in some of the places one might go in an expedition yacht. But then I live a sheltered life. If I had an expedition yacht as far as I would go is ferrying around a bunch of old ladies to the Greek Isles who are afraid of the gang plank and would hardly ever disembark. Or, possibly as a platform for watching Tony sail boat races between naps.
  14. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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  15. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Brian:
    I think both should appeal to HTM09. The 42m one is well representative of what his 60m yacht could be. And, if he purchased the 80 footer it would be a good way to proof the concept and see if he and his wife like the idea... lot of boat for the money... heavens the stylist on the 60m yacht would likely charge more! And, maybe give him the idea to combine the cat and the explorer motor yacht into one!

    I think buying a good used boat is a way to get ones feet wet before huge outlays and waits for the perfect boat. A freshening refit can be done very quickly and at low price and have a boat that is near new without the tatters and "itchy and scratchy" of a used boat. If the boat is maintained the fact that it has crossed oceans reliably also means its sorted without new boat problems. People often get worried about generator or engine hours... but if it has 10,000 - 15,000 - 20,000 current and well maintained hours you have a long way to go and you know the probability of them failing is much less than a new engine!

    Besides you can use the boat to get ideas that will not come unless you are actually experiencing a similar boat. And, you can use it all the while the perfect palace is built. My problem is I usually get attached to a boat or car if I like it enough to purchase and tend to keep a long long time... meaning I get my use for money out.

    Long day ahead today better get to it!
  16. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Power Catamaran

    The power catamaran is a very interesting type of vessel. With the adequate design, one can generate a huge amount of airy living space. Especially when it comes in to a size range, where the bridge deck between the two hulls has full height and can be utilized for crew and guest cabins etc.

    The other great advantage of a power catamaran is the relative small amount of power needed to propel one of those boats. The strict definition of displacement or semi planning can not be made with a power catamaran. Because of their lower resistance and wetted surface hulls, they are just faster or more economical.

    If you need for a 160 ft full displacement yacht hull app. 2 x 1000 KW, in order to reach comfortably hull speed and a cruising speed of app. 12 Kts, with the same amount of power on a 160 ft cat, you are probably steaming along like a destroyer at full blow. Will say, a power cat at given size and performance needs smaller engines, means lower fuel consumption, more range, etc. And the large deck space gives all the options for storing tender and toys plus a helicopter landing spot.

    But only a very few yards in northern Europe are probably willing (and capable?) to build such a marble in Alustar. The specialists for this type of boats are located Down Under (Australia and NZ).

    TBC
  17. bohans

    bohans New Member

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    Arctic P and Lone Ranger

    Hi Everyone, Just reading through the posts prior and looking at photos of Lone Ranger, it appears the Arctic P is a sister boat. Can anyone confirm this? As i understand, Arctic P is in Auckland being partly refit at the moment.

    What are your thoughts?

    Thanks
    Bo
  18. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    They are very close if not exact sisters
  19. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Exclusive 76 by Multiplast

    This one might be a little small for your consideration, but I might consider one of these vessels WITHOUT the sailing rig....nice looking vessel. And if done properly the aftersale market for the vessel could include the addition of a sailing rig by the subsequent owner.
    071220exclusive76, ps.jpg

    under-sail_10, ps.jpg

    Exclusive 76, flybridge.jpg

    Layout,ps.jpg


    These fellows at Multiplast have been biulding really top quality multihulls that have raced around the world numbers of times.
    Cruising multihulls - Multiplast

    You appear to have this 'preference' for metal boats. I would suggest that a really good quality glass-sandwich construction can offer an awfull lot of pluses to metal, particularly in multihulls....just two, lots quieter, much less condensation,

    Have some more pics if you want to see them.
  20. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Wow Brian love that boat... !

    And, Multiplast is highly experienced and technically advanced...