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Wages and Benefits

Discussion in 'Yacht Captains' started by Cdonjr, Feb 27, 2013.

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  1. aeronautic1

    aeronautic1 Member

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    OMG - what a ridiculous question. Have you NEVER worked at any other 9-5 job in your life? The owner is NOT responsible give you anything other that what you CONTRACT for during the negotiation for the job.

    To even suggest that a yacht owner pay for your groceries (car gas, tolls, movie tickets etc) for you when you're living in your own domicile shows me how immature you are. You should NOT hold an owner's credit card, if this is your mentality. I suggest you move back in with your parents.

    And BTW, temporary dayworkers are NOT required to be fed. If I do feed them, it's a burger/pizza out of pocket because they did a good job (you know, gratuity?).

    Geez, what has happened to the IQ of these people entering this industry?
  2. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    You might ask yourself the same question. LifesaDream is an OWNER!
  3. lifesadream

    lifesadream New Member

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    more info

    Thanks for the feedback,

    We have just moved from a 47' fishing boat with a part time captain to a 80' motor yacht & a full time captain. It's a whole new world. With a new boat I expected the expenses to be higher for the first few months & I am ok with a small grocery bill a month to stock the galley with some food for the crew, it's the daily pesky fast food credit card purchases that are bothering me. At this rate, I could spend an extra $8000/year.

    Also, it seems our day laborer has somehow turned into a new full-time employee. I'm just concerned that these are decisions that should be run by the owner first, it is our money.

    As far as the trust & integrity issue goes, absolutely. I believe we have hired an excellent captain with a lot of experience. I would like to build a nice charter business with the new boat & he has experience with helping me do that. I feel that I have shown him that respect & trust by issuing the credit card & signatory on our business checks & have not questioned every single purchase if they seem credible.

    I'm sure this can all be resolved with a conservation with clear expectations & roles defined. We are only 30 days into this new relationship & I really want it to work but do not want to feel like I am being nickel & dimed to death either.

    Because I'm entering into a whole new world, just wanted to get some experiences shared by others.

    Thanks again
  4. aeronautic1

    aeronautic1 Member

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    Really, I don't see it in the body of his post. However, the answer would be the same. At home port/domicile, crew pay their own living expenses.
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I have to ask what kind of hours the crew is working while in the home port that they would be there for breakfast lunch and dinner, and how far is it from a sandwich shop or the crew's home.

    If the boat is in a location where it'll take a long hour to get lunch or if you expect them to be on the job the entire shift, or if it's in a location where a cheap sandwich can't be gotten, then it would be expected for you to supply lunch. If you have them there at 0700 and out at 1900 I'd expect you to supply three meals. But if they're doing a 9-5 with time off for lunch, you should be supplying nothing, except drinks and snacks to be a nice owner and keep the crew working.

    When I cruise I expect to be fed if the owners are also eating. If it's more cost effective for the owner to bring in a lunch than to have me leave the boat for an hour or two in the middle of the shift it makes sense for him to. Otherwise I'd prefer to bring a brown bag or go off site to eat.

    If the boat is someplace like Pier 66, there's no place close to grab lunch that won't either take over an hour or it'll cost $30 for lunch. That's not in a crew member's budget. But if there's a deli a block away.......

    Growing up my mother had a housekeeper come in once a week. She had to be picked up and dropped off at the bus stop. While at our home she'd be given breakfast & lunch, and often sent home with some leftovers for her family. Her family was poor and they needed the help. In return she worked hard for over 20 years. The bottom line comes down to that your employees are your responsibility if you expect them to also care about you. If you can help them out, terrific, but if they're abusing a privilege that's an entirely different story.

    P.S. I also have to wonder about a yacht in Ft. Lauderdale with a full-time crew worrying about a food budget. Hard to imagine that the crew could eat in a week more than you'll pay for an hour's worth of fuel burned while cruising. As you analyze the situation keep in mind that you may save a few dollars at the cost of many or in the crew's loyalty. Most crew I know are very concerned with saving the owner's money. They may feel that working through a meal period is worth it for the owner to give them a sandwich.
  6. thatcher

    thatcher Member

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    I have been with the same boss for 10 years, within the first few months I was given a credit card and a checking account. I live at home, pay for my own car, gas, lunch, phone bills. On trips I pay for nothing. When we go to florida for the yard, the boat pays for a few dinners, and necessities from the grocery store, otherwise I pay for what I want. I get a rental car and all gas is payed for. The boat pays for me to fly back on certain weekends. When I'm out of money I hand in my expences, and request another amount of money that isn't questioned unless it's a lot.
    chris
  7. lifesadream

    lifesadream New Member

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    But if they're doing a 9-5 with time off for lunch, you should be supplying nothing, except drinks and snacks to be a nice owner and keep the crew working.


    yeah.



    Growing up my mother had a housekeeper come in once a week. She had to be picked up and dropped off at the bus stop. While at our home she'd be given breakfast & lunch, and often sent home with some leftovers for her family. Her family was poor and they needed the help. In return she worked hard for over 20 years. The bottom line comes down to that your employees are your responsibility if you expect them to also care about you. If you can help them out, terrific, but if they're abusing a privilege that's an entirely different story.

    I've always taken very good care of my help. This is just a new relationship I think I need to set some boundaries with.


    P.S. I also have to wonder about a yacht in Ft. Lauderdale with a full-time crew worrying about a food budget. Hard to imagine that the crew could eat in a week more than you'll pay for an hour's worth of fuel burned while cruising. As you analyze the situation keep in mind that you may save a few dollars at the cost of many or in the crew's loyalty. Most crew I know are very concerned with saving the owner's money. They may feel that working through a meal period is worth it for the owner to give them a sandwich.

    Yes, I just didn't get to where I am at by not monitoring the bottom line. I still pack my own lunch every day when I go to work, ha ha. No matter how much I have, $8000 is still a lot of money to me. The absolute last thing I want is to have this minor issue create any trouble & in the grand scheme of things it is minor. It's just a new experience for me so was looking for some feedback.

    Thanks
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I agree, when the boat is away the owner pays for all meal expenses and other small justifiable expenses for the crew. When the boat is in it's home port and the Captain stays in his own house, meals should not be provided. However, if the Captain/crew live on the boat 24/7 homeport or not, then meals should always be provided. However, I don't know if I would gripe about Mcdonalds charges on the credit card for lunch.....Sometimes I would do that if we had venders working hard on the boat or day laborers....I'd go out and get everyone lunch or order pizza's.....
  9. lifesadream

    lifesadream New Member

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    Thanks

    Thanks guys,

    I wasn't griping, just inquiring. I could have ask a bunch of owners but thought I'd get other Captains' perspectives. I have over 500 other employees I don't buy lunch for. It's been my experience that if you don't set boundaries early in any relationship things can go bad very fast.

    Have a great day everybody.
  10. AlfredZ

    AlfredZ Senior Member

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    I share the sentiments of NYCAP and agree with CaptJ.

    Sit down with your captain and ask him what kind of work is getting done that requires both guys to remain on board and deserve the meals. Then ask him to outline his expected monthly budget to be able to anticipate what you are up against and define the boundaries to your captain as well as how much you are really willing to spend on the boat. I do feel that since you are only 30 days into ownership that this is just temporary and the captain is just trying to get the boat ready for you as quick as possible neglecting the temporary rise in running costs.

    Congrats on your new time by the way!

    Cheers,
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    You're correct that it really does come down to communication. Since you're a bit new to this I would suggest asking more than telling what policies should be in place. I would definitely suggest you not bring up the "500 other employees", because your relationship with your captain and what tasks he'll perform don't relate to other jobs. On the boat I work I'll often be doing boat jobs the moment my eyes open in the morning and I'll be doing boat jobs before they close at night, most the owner will know nothing about beyond that the boat is a pleasure to be aboard. Most of us don't count hours, and you won't here the phrase "not my job". So you may well find when you ask about him taking breakfast that he was on board since 0500 that day doing something. Even when we're off the boat we're often working on your behalf. In my current position I'm on for about 2 weeks, then off for about 3 weeks, but during those 3 weeks I'm constantly calling or e-mailing the marina, journeymen, suppliers, etc. as well as making plans for the boat.
    This generally isn't a 9-5 job.
  12. lifesadream

    lifesadream New Member

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    Thank you guys very much. This thread has been very helpful. I plan on handling this very respectfully & fairly. All of your perspectives have been very helpful.

    Like I said, this is a new & exciting experience for us & may need some help navigating the way. :)
  13. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    A few thoughts (easy for me - it's your money).

    $8000 / 365 = $21.92 per day (for 2?)

    Are they prepping the yacht for charter (supplemental income)?

    Some old sayings:

    Penny wise and pound foolish.

    It takes money to make money.

    Happy crew = happy boat = happy guests = repeat clientele = happy owner = priceless.
  14. Perlmudder

    Perlmudder Member

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    I can not comment on an 80 ft, but when I was working on various 130-200ft, food was always supplied. When it was day work, lunch was always provided by the chef. When I worked full time on a 150, lunch and dinner was always provided, and breakfast you were on your own. This was no matter where the boat was. It was also not uncommon for the chef to bring pizza or something else in for crew lunch since they were often busy provisioning and did not have time to make a full lunch. When day workers or varnisher's or who ever was working on the boat, lunch was always provided to them.


    I cannot comment on if this is normal or not on smaller boats, but on larger boats where the crew live on board, and there was a chef this is was my experience.

    In my current experience running a 60ft, if we have guys working on the boat, I would much rather go grab lunch for everyone then have them stop working and disappear for a few hours to get lunch. In this case my boss would never question getting the bill for lunch.
  15. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I have not worked on a 80 footer or less unless on a delivery and I got fed while on them.

    In my experience on the bigger boats there is often a Crew Chef, there are 3 squares a day and snacks in between. Part of the daywork deal is normally they get lunch and any soft drinks they need during the day.

    There might even be a few beers on the dock after work on a Friday.

    When Crew have to live ashore they get paid an allowance which is when in the yard for refit is usually for breakfast and dinner and when doing a new build it covers all meals till the crew chef gets going. I have just put a proposal to an Owner to pay €25 per person a day and did not get any complaints.
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I'm going to toss out one additional thought. Our Captain and crew are US citizens on a US boat paying US taxes. So for every dollar of salary we give them, 30-40 cents of that goes to taxes, not them. But when we can give them qualified benefits such as food, such as housing, they get the full benefit without taxes taken. It's much like health insurance and 401-K. Anytime I can put money in their pocket without a large portion going to taxes, they generally appreciate it. It's part of their total package.

    As to day crew or anyone else. If you're on my boat at meal time and others are eating, you will be fed. Now some might say they have their own plans as soon as they leave and decline. I think of the Panama Canal pilots and if you don't feed them well, they have their own brought in by boat and that gets very expensive.

    While I use good business practices in insuring crew is treated at least as well as my business employees are, I provide them more. I live with them much of the time. I entrust my well being and that of my wife and our friends to them. But then our crew is more than employees, they are our friends now. I can't imagine spending the time we do with them and they not being.
  17. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    A little bit off topic, but when I worked as a steward on charter boats, I was given the Bum Test.

    When on a two week charter, the girls onboard used to squeeze my butt for firmness. After working 18/20 hour days on charter, the weight just falls off. Starting at only 120lbs to begin with, losing 5lbs a week gives a good indication of just how hard the work is. The girls reckoned that once my butt felt like 2 little rocks, they could give me an afternoon off.

    Such sweet babes we had with us. :rolleyes:
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Could you imagine reversing those roles? Those "sweet Babes" would be suing you (once you got out of jail) and the boat's owner for everything you're both worth. Like you I never minded having my butt grabbed by a cute girl or three. What's with these P.C. women anyway?:D Every party needs a pooper that's why they invite today's women.
  19. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    When we re on trips (owners trip, charters, or moving the boat) then I cook and eat whatever we have provisioned on board. If I want to eat out, I pay for it.... Can't imagine charging an owner for a restaurant bill, whether a $100 dinner in the Bahamas where we are right now or a $10 fast food quickie. That s ridiculous but I know it s common practice by many delivery skippers.

    When at our home port, I stay on my boat and feed myself.

    This is on a 70 footer, over the past 6 years.

    On a 100+ with a large full time live aboard crew I can see how the crew may be fed on board but restaurants? Come on....

    As to the day worker who is turning into a full time employee, that is a warning sign. You need to have a talk with your captain and see what the day worker is doing. Whoever I hire someone for a job, I always make sure the owner gets a detailed bill or an explanation of the work done

    Something doesn't smell right here.
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Most times I eat with the owners. Sometimes it's because I'm like part of the family and sometimes it's to keep the owner company. That's part of the job. If the owner wants to go off on his own that's fine too. I'll eat on board or grab something and put in the bill. Most of the people I work for prefer high end restaurants and the big bill goes with it. Personally I prefer a burger or a slice. But it really is a matter of the practices of a particular boat. Our job is to fit in with the owner's preferences. We're the entertainer or the guy in the background. Whatever suits the owners and guests.