Click for Llebroc Click for Glendinning Click for CL Yachts Click for Mag Bay Click for Lurssen

Volvo IPS improvements

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by FishForFun, Mar 25, 2021.

  1. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Sardinia
    Seriously? Got a link?
    Anyhow, none of the builders I spoke with are paying anywhere near those prices.
  2. zen

    zen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Delray Beach
    Owned a 2012 IPS boat and it was OK. That was the year they figured it out, prior to that not so much.

    I checked the pod oil prior to every trip and had water in there multiple times, fishing line twice and leaking seals twice. If the newer versions no longer require a haulout to change pod oil, it would be MUCH better, cheaper and convenient. However has anyone seen a pod boat with over 1000 hours on it? I think there was a Seavee or sportfish with pods that got to 3000 hours but I would love to see the costs. Also, any idea what it costs to rebuild a Volvo engine compared to the equivalent Cat or Man?
  3. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Sardinia
    It isn't the haulout for normal oil change that affects the cost of ownership so much.
    Whenever you have emulsionated oil (as you experienced "multiple times", unsurprisingly), the typical reason is a faulty prop shaft seal, which is a total show stopper, requiring haulout PDQ, regardless of the manufacturing year.

    Ref. engine rebuild, as I'm told the ballpark cost of parts is comparable to other manufacturer, for the block as such.
    But only for their larger engines, because the D4 and D6, which make for the largest IPS numbers, are disposable.
    Which in a sense is a good thing, that makes life easier.
    If and when you should rebuild a D6, you just throw it away, fit a new one, and swallow the cost. :confused:
  4. zen

    zen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Delray Beach
    If I recall correctly a D6-435 i about 70k, plus 30k for a lower unit? Yikes.
  5. Slimshady

    Slimshady Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Lighthouse pt
    It's $ 54 k.
  6. tusindtak

    tusindtak Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,214
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    So about the cost of a Seven outboard,
  8. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,510
    Location:
    Germany
    I honestly do not understand this Volvo Penta bashing, especially Your deep dislike of the IPS system. I can only assume, You get really ripped off with Volvo service and repair on Your side of the pond.

    We have several Volvo Penta propulsion systems in the family and more to come. Smaller Volvo Penta mechanical engines with gear and shaft in smaller sail boats, Volvo Penta I/O drives with Duoprop on tenders and workboats and several multiple IPS installations.

    My oldest son for example has a 80 ft custom built quad IPS 600 planning boat. He teared off one IPS drive in Dutch waters, when taking a short cut and hitting a breakwater. His boatswain dived into the shallow water and recovered the teared off drive. Only one the props was damaged. The boat could be driven on own power to the yard (no water intrusion) and was back in the water on the same day. A few parts on the predetermined breaking point and the bended prop had to be exchanged and the pod was reinstalled without any problem, as the yard had the parts in stock.

    My son in law and my oldest daughter own a Prestige 680 Flybridge with dual IPS 1350. Due to their limited spare time (they are both medical doctors with their own clinic), my son in law has the tendency to go always at max continous power, as soon as passing the last river lock at Bremen and the downtown low speed zone, in order to reach the North sea as quickly as possibly. Also this boat is maintained by pros, I do not believe that these engines will reach the 1.000 hours. But a Ferrari wont last that long either, if always driven on the edge or beyond of its spec.

    All our IPS drives and the Duoprop I/O drives get normal service according to schedule and exchange of filters, zinks and wear parts. Other than that, we never had any problems.

    But I do admid that the boats do not live in tropical waters, are serviced and maintained only by professionals and are out of the water and sheltered during winter.

    And Volvo Penta Service and Spare parts are by no menas more expensive than other branches here in Europe. It only gets really expensive when we talk to MTU :). But this is REALLY heavy iron!

    HTMO9
    Psilocybin and NYCAP123 like this.
  9. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Sardinia
    What do you mean exactly by "max continuous power"?
    The D13 engine in the IPS 1350 has an "R5" rating (pleasure duty), which in VP jargon means:
    - 300 hours/year max;
    - usage at 100% load for no more than 1 hour out of 12;
    - in between full load usage periods, it can be used at up to 90% load.

    Which actually is not so awfully restrictive, for pleasure boats.
    In fact, if as you said she's serviced by official VP dealers, they should have already warned your son in law if he pushed the boat above the previous limits, because they can check that with their diagnostic systems, and they could even invalidate the warranty if the usage would be significantly outside the rating envelope.
    If they didn't tell him anything, I can only assume that he's using the boat within VP prescriptions.

    BTW, don't think that there's not a lot of difference between running at 90% or 100% load.
    For comparison, the D13 engine we are talking about, used in the IPS 1350, has a max output of 1000hp @ 2400rpm.
    The very same block in "R1" rating (continuous duty, unrestricted both in terms of hours and load) has a max output of 450hp @ 1800rpm.

    Anyway, if considering the above you are not expecting those engines to clock 1000 hours, which could potentially be reached in little more than three years, and you are happy with that, good for you and your son in law.
    Just don't be surprised if most other folks, myself included, would not be impressed by such lifespan, to put it very politely.

    PS: I'm writing from the same side of the Pond as yours, FWIW.
    Rerm likes this.
  10. amgscrap

    amgscrap Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    boca raton
    I have owned three boats with IPS. A Cranchi with IPS 600’s. A Sunseeker with IPS 900’s and a Lazzara with IPS 1200’s. Unfortunately, the Sunseeker used Jack shafts so the boat could also be built with conventional drives. That negated the extra space you would ordinarily get with IPS and I believe the fuel economy was less. With the two boats I had that were built for IPS drives I got increased cabin space, and fantastic fuel economy. Other then ordinary maintenance, I have had zero problems.

    I think a portion of the difference of opinions is that there are a lot of professional captains on the forum. They go out on their boats every day and handling a boat and docking a boat in swift current in a tight marina is second nature to them. I am a casual boater. I can and do use the throttles to handle the boat. BUT I love to use the joystick in tight difficult situations. It makes boating pleasurable to me. I also know that many conventional drives now come with joystick options. I tried a few and while good they don’t compare with the handling of pods.
    Psilocybin and NYCAP123 like this.
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,214
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    With conventional drives that joy stick is also working thrusters. IPS is just turning the pods.
    Psilocybin likes this.
  12. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    6,692
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    hull design and construction has a huge impact on fuel economy, as much as propulsion technology. Lazzaras have always been more economical to run than others. For instance the C32 powered 84 skylounge I run burns 20% less than comparable size boats... on calm conditions we burn 72gph at 20 kts (49% load). Goes up to 78 gph offshore

    not saying IPS doesn’t save girl, but there are many factors at play
  13. Slimshady

    Slimshady Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Lighthouse pt
    I didn't use the joystick, found it gimmicky. Lots of water moving and gears shifting for little horizontal movement. To get boat to maneuver like straight shaft, I used sportfish mode and she would crab sideways, no thruster.
  14. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    5,302
    Location:
    Sweden
    Our Delta 80 with triple IPS 1200 uses 40 USG at 19.2 knots, 63 USG at 26.1 knots and 90 USG at 32.4 knots...
  15. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,510
    Location:
    Germany
    Sorry for my pilot slang. With max continuous power or MCP, I basically ment full power or as we say in Germany, Throttle on the deck. Or in German, Vollgas :) !

    - usage at 100% load for no more than 1 hour out of 12;
    - in between full load usage periods, it can be used at up to 90% load.

    I think, he might be busting one or both of this. He is a very casual boater, only going out on the weekends and during nice weather and maybe during a summer vacation. He has some 100 km on the Weser River before reaching open sea, which is most likely boring for him. But he is definately not making 300 hours a year. I am sure, these engines can do much more than 1.000 hours before overhaul, if handled properly and bit less brutal.

    My other son has put more than 170 engine hours on his quad IPS 600 during a single four weeks vacation across the North Sea and around the British Islands. But this only at 70 % load, which means easy cruise speed. Also he likes speed, he is a gentle boater with grace for the machinery. According to the inspection protocols from last October, the engines a very healthy and in great shape.

    One of my tenders built in 2008, mostly used as a crew shuttle with twin IPS 600 engines had its first on condition overhaul at app. 1.100 oprating hours. The engines are still going strong after this intensive service. And the final bill from the Volvo Service center was not schocking at all.

    When choosing a propulsion for a new boat I would always go again for:

    Volvo I/O drives with Duoprop for boats up to 30 ft in single or twin configuration. But these boats get only wet with us, when being used (onboard stored tenders).

    Volvo IPS 400 up to 1350 for any purpose but only if the hull and the complete boat are specially designed for IPS. This excludes for sure the use of jack shafts.

    The big atvantages of IPS and partially of the I/O Duoprop too is the easy handling of the boats (joystick), space savings in the hull and the absence of visual exhaust smoke.

    On our bigger boats and the commercial shipping side, we are converting all of our SOLAS rescue boats from the gasoline outboards to the 50 HP DTorque Diesel outboard. I am really convinced with this great engine. No more gasoline storage on any of our boats, yachts or ships, period. I am looking forward to the new bigger diesel outboard engines comming up. When they prove to be reliable, I will be a customer for centerboards.

    But my personal dream would be a 100 to 120 ft fast planning boat with quad IPS 1350 and fully built in Carbon. Something like Lars Modin has on its drawing board. That must be a beast.

    HTMO9
  16. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    6,692
    Location:
    Miami, FL

    Very impressive but I bet a good chunk of this fuel
    Economy comes from construction and design.
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,214
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Of course it does. That's also why you don't get space savings in a retrofit. VP will retrofit, and in the early IPS days did it quite a bit. But the ideal situation is for the boat to be designed for IPS.
  18. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,510
    Location:
    Germany
    +1 on that statement. If You look at a video of a Delta 88 at planning speed, You see the difference. There is not much water pushed away to the sides, it glides gently over the water. That is what I would call an efficient hull design. The external design might be a matter of personal taste but the hull is very efficient and has the perfect propulsion for it, Volvo IPS.
  19. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Sardinia
    Having in mind the logic behind that hull design, I'd be willing to bet that she could be even faster and more efficient with surface drives.
    But that's just theoretical, because I don't think we'll ever see anything like that.
    The joystick appeal is obviously a crucial part of the package, and if there's something surface drives are NOT good at (in sharp contrast with IPS), it's making life easy for inexperienced helmsmen.
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  20. Marblehead01945

    Marblehead01945 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    Marblehead
    I think you also have to consider (when designing a new boat) quietness and space. I think it makes it much easier to put a nice full beam master in with all the gear in the back of the boat as opposed to the middle (talking 50-90 footers here). From a design perspective a big advantage I would think. It sounds like no one has an issue with the Volvo engines per se but the ips drives attached to them?