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Virgin Roamer Owner

Discussion in 'Chris Craft Roamer Yacht' started by jensand5k, Nov 29, 2013.

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  1. jensand5k

    jensand5k New Member

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    Nov 10, 2013
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    Location:
    Byron IL
    I have worked on fiberglass sail boats over the past years, how ever this is part of my wife bucket list.

    It was a great feeling to see the 1970 38 ' Roamer Riviera delivered to my house/barn last week. It will be a one to two year project. Bottom has be welded and is water tight (I hope) Working on the inside already. Windows and windows that has leaked, replacing upright wood in the window frame any suggestions on fixing the awful design of the water entering into the bottom molding and leaks into the cabin??? The plastic molding were window slides is in good shape.

    I need to get my hands on manuals as well, any suggestions??

    I am located in the north west corner of IL, and the Roamer will go in the IL at some time.

    Treat me gentle I am a virgin.

    Jens
  2. alloyed2sea

    alloyed2sea Moderator

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    Alex, VA

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  3. jensand5k

    jensand5k New Member

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    Location:
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    located other Roamers

    Yes it did take me a bit to get to the Roamer section. Thanks for the pictures.

    My leaks are around the molded plastic track on the starboard side, the one that I can not "figure out" is the wooden "upright" near the galley on the top of the upright. Water must have travel up. If I see you picture correctly you have removed the "toe board" and the "trim" up against the side ??? and then fixed all leaks in that area?

    I will get a few pictures as well and then also 3 front windows have leaked like a sieve and suggestions here?

    Jens
  4. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Annapolis MD
    Roamer leaks

    Hello Jens,

    I have a 38 Riviera 1969 Aluminum. I have taken every inch of it apart and put back together. Here is the exact leak situation:

    1) They tend to have a slight pound at high speeds in 3 foot chop in the bow closet/bulkhead area. This tends to stress/haircrack the mahogany molding that partially connects the fiberglass sedan top to the aluminum deck. If you look closely at the left and right corners as you approach the bows of both sides where the front part of the top hits the deck, you will likely notice a hairline crack... very minute but this is where the water can slowly leak in and you will/can see the water stains on the cabin front balkheads. These moldings should be cut out/remade and sealed/replaced with a new product called Flexpoxy by Petitt which is a hard yet flexible epoxy, then screwed back down with "teff-gelled" stainless screws and painted. This will likely forever stop this characteristic issue.

    2) It is unlikely the window tracks themselves are leaking as that track is rock solid U channel fiberglass...UNLESS water froze there and could split a crack. Mine was fine when I pulled the windows out.

    3) If the top stainless rails are not well caulked or are original, water can drip down the screw holes from up top and leak into the cabin. I recommend loosening the screws in the sedan top from inside in the headliner and re-caulking the chrome fittings. The best product is Sikaflex 291 lot... second best is 3M 4200.

    4) The rear stainless rail that connects into the sedan top perpendicular to the front windows is an easy leak spot. Mine leaked there in rough seas since I had not re-caulked it. The screw goes in and water can drip down from the top into the kitchen and bath area. This would be hard to see, but both sides must be re-caulked. No caulk outside lasts 45 years, but the Roamer Hull if in Aluminum will last forever if it has a good epoxy bottom/kept dry inside and use Pettit paint for aluminum... best stuff out there.. Trilux 2 is pricey crud. Make sure to hang a zinc overboard in salt water, aluminum in brackish and magnesiam in fresh, then do a silver diode test and try to get at .9 which is perfect... one zinc big zinc wired to the hull at dock should do the whole boat except the shafts and rudders. The you can will the boat to your great great great grandson :) still floating... provided you also have a good isolation transformer preferably from Charles Industries 3.6 KVA. If that is too much a Galvonic from Derryland is the best galvanic... but only a true iso-transformer protect the boat from polarity or poor current as electric is magnetically transferred precluding the possibility of electrolysis. I am not a believer in Capoc system voodoo... am a believer is isolating shafts with drive savers, epoxy bottom, proper petitt aluminum paint and isolation transformer.

    5) Sorry, off topic.... FOR SURE, the main big two windows leak a bit if you still have the original gut. This original gut is impossible to find in the exact density. Hanna Rubber Company | Rubber Products | Plastic Products | Manufacturer | Distibutor | Kansas City | Rubber Products | Plastic Products | Manufacturer | Distibutor | Kansas City has the perfect size in black to replace the original, (Sea Ray suppliers) but it is slightly harder so will leak. If you replace it with that on the inside track and then use Taco round rubber gut you can see at West Marine on the window opening side, the seal would be soft/awesome. If you look closely when you open your two big windows you will see screws that hold the window frame to the fiberglass top. This is where it can/leak from the windows into the cabin. This would be a very subtle leak but if you tear down your headliner will see some of the screws may have some corrosion from slow drip potential. These drips can then turn into misty sniff.

    There is no other possible areas of leaks.. check your moldings as they meet the deck, the chrome fittings for new caulk up top and seal the big helm windows with new gut. Possibly a bit of clear silicone on the screws if you can do a neat tidy job too. Also beware, the side windows will drip into the side of the boat where the side doors are in the helm areas. This is a problem... those windows are big and hard to take out. But... have the same leaky screw deal going-on. Best solution would be to nigrig/screw a custom rubber window blade like you see on a car window so water can't get into those tracks at all.... tricky job there... but I am certain these are the issues and any one of them/ or perhaps all can be contributing. I love aluminum hulls.. "taken care of" nothing is better IMHO for strength, weight and durability.

    Hope this helps.. been there, don that. Welcome to the R-CULT and bring her back to her original glory... no sloppy fast cover up jobs, they are too pretty well-done and will last for your great great great grandson. They are really beautiful boats, particularly the one you have as it is rare.... only 7 made in aluminum in 1969 and maybe about the same in 1970. 1970 had the stall shower, other than that, about the same. They don't roll either, nice steady feel floating.

    HOMER
  5. jensand5k

    jensand5k New Member

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    Nov 10, 2013
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    Location:
    Byron IL
    window leak on Starboard

    This is the place that I see the water damage, on the starboard side above the first window/cabin support, above the actual window pane. It appear to me that , (we have rain here in IL and a small amount is leaking through my tarp) water leaking onto the top of the cabin roof / running down from the helm windows and onto cabin top and over the starboard side and around that very soft curve and drips onto the window support

    I have checked for cracks in the top and around the area, I have pulled back the sealing material as well and the wood in the area above the water damage is nice and solid. I am at a loss how the water travel up and damaged the upper portion of the window assembly. The piece of wood that lays inside the first window and holds it in place was damp but still in surprisingly good condition.

    I hope that the image will post as well. if it does i have to replace the wood between the bold lines.

    I am checking all other places that Homer 1958 suggested as well.

    This and the front 3 windows are the only leaks that I will have to deal with inside the cabin.

    Thank you for the information

    Jens

    Attached Files:

  6. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    Location:
    Annapolis MD
    Gravity

    Hi Jens,

    Water can't run uphill... 100% impossible.
    Potentially with an absorbent base, water could absorb uphill.
    However, 99% unlikely there, it is glass and calk going uphill where the water damage appears.

    Your water is coming from one of two places and it involves old caulk or foam rubber windshieled seals allow it to seep into the screw holes holding in the windshield.

    Water in the two big windshield tracks or the caulk seam below it where it meets the sedan top are leaking in and flowing to the low point which is above the window there.

    Or.. it is coming from the stainless rail chrome piece screw holes downward...
    nothing else is possible
  7. ILELBOAT

    ILELBOAT New Member

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    Jul 22, 2007
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    15
    Location:
    Starved Rock Yacht Club Ottawa, Illinois 61350
    Hello Jensand5k: I don't come to the roamer site to often but we're not that far apart. I have a 46 steel roamer with 871s on the dry at Starved Rock Marina. I have gotten the bottom replaced from the engine room back. final welding just finished up. Lot of grinding left to do then sandblast and paint. I don't know how to post pics but someone put a pic of her on 'found a 46 roamer' page 7. It's the blue one. That was taken at marine services in Dalton,IL. Good luck with your project ILELBOAT
  8. jensand5k

    jensand5k New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
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    5
    Location:
    Byron IL
    fellow IL Roamer owner

    Hi Ilelboat,
    The previous owner had the bottom redone last year along the keel and some patch work further up the bottom side. I still have some work to do around the starboard rudder, it does not look completed.

    What product are you using for the feathering or are you doing feathering around the welded section? One old guy told me to "grind it down, sand-blast, and paint" what is your take on the bottom treatment??

    We plan to keep the boat around the area that your are in when completed.

    I am on my way out to work on the "head". I was out earlier and turned the heat up in the cabin to make it at least above freezing. It is flipping cold.
    We are replacing counter-top, head wall liner and sealing panel.

    I am working on the waste system as well. I noticed that the grey water from shower is pumped into a oval shaped tank (what is this???) (behind outside wall) and then into the waste tank, Correction The grey water from the shower is drained through the firewall to the engine room and then pumped out. does anyone have experience with the setup and recommendation on layout??? The system I had sen on sailboat waste system are:
    1 water to head
    2 Marine head (manual or electrical)
    3 waste tank
    4 vent hose and vent to out side
    5 Y valve to empty
    6 Maceration pump
    6a Through hull valve (3 miles)
    7 waste (deck) pump out

    Sailing inside the US on rivers and lakes is it even allowed to have a connection through the hull??

    Make it great day.

    Jens
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  9. jensand5k

    jensand5k New Member

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    Location:
    Byron IL
    oval tank on port side before waste tank

    This is the oval tank before the waste tank, the pump is located on the stern end and under the head of the tank, any suggestions anyone????

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  10. alloyed2sea

    alloyed2sea Moderator

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    Alex, VA
    Bottom Fairing

    No.
    Not really a good idea to "feather" out the patches or whatever BELOW the waterline. Some strong, fiberglass strand-reinforced (green) bondo mixtures might (might) last, but generally speaking the answer is NO.
    If you actually care about the "look", grinding the edges of the patch plates "smooth" is prolly a better idea. Then, PROTECT: coat with Interlux 2001E Epoxy - 3 or 4 coats.
    In fact, had the entire bottom of my aluminum 37' Riviera coated with 4-5 coats of epoxy and "turned" her into a fiberglass boat: protects hull from stray currents and anything else (Nibral props, SS shafts, mild steel rudders) underneath.
    About your grey water tank and head systems - I got nothin'. Use an electric macerating head and pump-out storage system myself. You CAN pump overboard directly iffin' you have an in-line treatment unit setup.
    Cheers!
    -Eric
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  11. ILELBOAT

    ILELBOAT New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Starved Rock Yacht Club Ottawa, Illinois 61350
    jensand5k Like I stated before i don't get to this site to often. but read your responce. I'm planning on grinding and the sandblast/paint. unless there are big bumps! I have not yet decided on a paint manufacture but Defoe has been recomended to me. But no dealer near here. (Utica, Il.) If you are looking for dockage send me a note. Starved Rock Yacht Club will be having a group launch April 19th weather premiting, you can come on down to see how we work. As your waste water I believe NO black water can go into the water, but the grey water can, on old boats. The ovel tank looks like a Vac U flush unit. Nice but can be trouble some.
  12. bolsado

    bolsado Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
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    139
    Location:
    Sacramento
    fairing the bottom

    Supplementing previous comments by Redman and Homer,

    You can use the search feature in the forum on the topic and specifically please check out the 46 footer by q240z and pics in the fransdream posts on a 41-footer

    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/c...309-restoring-1969-46-chris-craft-roamer.html

    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/c...27-1968-41-roamer-undergoing-restoration.html

    Essentially the prep and application is not that different for steel and aluminum though AL prep is a bit more involved

    http://www.yachtpaint.com/MPYACMDatasheets/Interprotect_2000E+eng-usa+A4+Y+20130529.pdf

    PER INTERLUX for 2000E application

    STEEL Degrease by wiping with a rag soaked in Fiberglass Solvent Wash 202. Gritblast to near white metal surface. A surface profile of 2-3 mils (50-75 microns) is recommended. If gritblasting is not possible, grind the surface with a 36 grit grinding disc or sand with 40-60 grit sandpaper. Bring the surface to a uniform, clean, bright metal surface with a surface profile of 2-3 mils (50-75 microns). Remove sanding residue and immediately apply a coat of Interprotect 2000E, thinned 15-20%. Apply 4-5 additional coats of Interprotect 2000E.

    ALUMINUM Degrease by wiping with a rag soaked in Fiberglass Solvent Wash 202. Grit blast, grind with a 36 grit disc, or sand with 40-60 grit sandpaper. If gritblasting, use aluminum compatible materials. Bring the surface to a uniform, clean, bright metal surface. A surface profile of 3-4 mils (75-100 microns) is recommended. Remove sanding residue with a brush, vacuum or by blowing off with a clean air line. Within 1 hour of preparing the surface, apply a coat of Interprotect 2000E thinned 15-20% with the correct thinner. Apply 4-5 additional coats of Interprotect 2000E.

    q240z used

    note in his images he is using the watertite filler to basically smooth over joints

    "Also, for what it's worth, the following is the schedule I've adhered to for this boat.

    1) Sandblast to near white metal except where original fairing compound is in good condition.
    2) Alumaprep & Alodine to all exposed aluminum (possibly not necessary with appropriate "tooth" on the aluminum, but who wants to take a chance?)
    3) Three coats of Devoe 236 Bar Rust epoxy primer from the keel to a foot or so above the waterline.
    4) For underwater filler work, I recommend Interlux VC Watertight Epoxy Fairing Compound over Devoe 236. When applied within a few days after the last coat of 236, you get a fine chemical bond between the two epoxy products. The theory being that Devoe 236 flows much deeper into the pores of the metal than a paste filler can, yielding the best mechanical bond from aluminum to epoxy. Then, you have the outstanding epoxy-epoxy chemical bond from primer to Interlux filler.
    5) For above the waterline, I recommend LBI vinylester fairing compound in the 5-gallon pail. I was using 3M Premium Marine Vinylester, but one gallon of 3m is $88 wholesale and 5 gallons of BLI is $168 retail. They look the same, they smell the same, they spread the same, and they're both vinylester.
    6) Decks get the same treatment as below the waterline--Devoe 236 primer then Interlux VC filler.
    7) Finally, the whole thing will get three more coats of Devoe 236."