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VIDEO - Sunk Bertram Discussion

Discussion in 'Bertram Yacht' started by YachtForums, Jan 15, 2010.

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  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Why? All that would do is guarantee he'd get nothing.
  2. Hot Rod

    Hot Rod New Member

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  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Post #220. "toward SW (214 degrees)"
  4. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    For every current, there is counter flow running alongside. In that area I doubt he was in the Gulf Stream, typically it's further out. You never run south in the Gulf Stream anyway, especially not with a wind running counter. Those 3-4 footers will turn 7-9 and be steep as snot.
  5. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    None of those weights are correct. Apply Archimedes principle. Hint, you need the specific gravity of all the different materials and each materials mass to calculate it's "weight" underwater. Good reference for you to start with if you have one around is the PADI Encyclopedia of Diving. The Navy Dive Manual is available free online, it covers all this as well and much much more. It's a must read for salvors. You have to relate each materials specific gravity and mass to that of sea water rather than air. Most of the materials the boat is made of are quite near neutral, with foam coring, there is a lot of material that is positive. Also the hydraulic force of the ocean is all enveloping. Even if you actually have a vessel with 100,000lbs of negative bouyancy, figure the vessel bow up in the water column will present around 70,000 square inches of frontal surface. That means it only takes an upwelling surge with 1.5psi of force to be able to lift and push it along dropping it as the rotor of the swell passes over and reverses it's direction forcing it down. That is not a theoretical either, I've salvaged a fishing boat off the Farralons in exactly these conditions as a 70' steel boat is being picked up and slapped back down. Lots of force available.
  6. Teddy1

    Teddy1 New Member

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    SHWOO - I'm impressed, how do you know all this ####!
  7. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    That particular bit of info? Paid attention in High School Physics class for starters. Having had my own salvage business and working for a couple others over the years didn't hurt either.
  8. tommymonza

    tommymonza Guest

    Henning please make it easy on me and answer these 3 questions for me please.

    1. What would be the weight of 14,400 lbs of MTUs underwater.

    2. What would be the weight of 15,000 lbs of steel items such as shafts .rudders .generators. wiring.a/c and reefer,compressors,cleats .anchors.

    3. What would be the weight of 10,000 lbs of none cored solid fiberglass hull as in the bottom area from the chine down should be solid.

    Thank you.
  9. canyonreaper

    canyonreaper New Member

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    Hi ,
    New here. I had no idea when this story first came out that this was the 63 Bertram sold from a local marina. I had seen it many times. I am amazed at the damage.
    I haven't read through everything but what is the current status of why it sunk? Also why hasn't the crew produced any statements about the sinking? Doesn't the CG document or have staments from them? I guess this info is not for the public
    Is the idea of it hitting something out? Does anyone recall team Bad Company hitting a 40ton whale on their 60ish Viking at 22knts? Head on. Boat had severe damage and took on water but made it back to port. Can that be compared to this?
    I loved the old bertrams. Spent quite a bit of time on them. Sad to see this.
  10. Sportfisher

    Sportfisher New Member

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    Everything you asked has been covered so if you DID read through things.... you would not ask us to rehash everything for you.
  11. canyonreaper

    canyonreaper New Member

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    Well its well over 100 pages of info, so I thought I would take a shot;) . Guess ill have to read it all
  12. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Yep, sometimes when you want to know something, you have to put in the effort.
  13. Sportfisher

    Sportfisher New Member

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    I am very well aware it is beyond 100 pages. I have read every post in the related threads. It reads very well, flows very well, until someone jumps in the middle who hasn't the interests to learn everything but throws the thread off track by asking about covered material.
    Especially with a first post and admission you couldn't be bothered to read everything before posting.
    It is disrespectful to everyone's time invested.
  14. canyonreaper

    canyonreaper New Member

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    well sorry if it was. Found what I was looking for.
  15. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    No worries. Perhaps one of the mods could copy the "factuals", those posts containing official reports and statements, into a separate thread (maybe the one with the pictures)? It could be stickied and labeled "Read before posting in Bertram 630 threads". Considering all the recent members added in the last week or so, this might help avoid at least some animosity in this subject.
  16. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Sportfisher, if it’s possible to keep the posts respectful so you don’t upset members and guests. Thank you.

    Far
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Summary:
    Captain's statement: The bow came apart in a 3' to 4' following sea and the boat sank in about 10 minutes. He claims not to have hit anything. Captain works for Marine Max.
    Bertram's statement: The boat hit a buoy which caused the damage and sank the boat.
    Boat's story: Massive damage and delamination forward well above the water line, forward deck pealed back, console broken fee, transom broken off. Boat sits in about 80' of water.
    Owner's statement: No insurance. They're suing Bertram and Marine Max.
    YF: Lots of speculation and Bertram bashing. Much good education to be had. About 10 factual posts. Waiting for next round of facts which will be the results of tests on hull samples taken by divers and other experts hired by the involved parties or settlement or litigation.
  18. tommymonza

    tommymonza Guest

    HENNING

    Any chance I can get those bouyancy figures back from you please.

    I know I could learn something from researching the links that you provided for me . Frankly I am to busy currently and It would be so much easer for everybody If you just made the calculations so everyone knew that they were correct and all of us would not have to waste 7 pages of this thread discussing if my figures were correct.
    Than we could try to stay on topic and proceed with the subject..
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    If you're too busy to do the research then it isn't important to you; just a curiosity.
  20. tommymonza

    tommymonza Guest

    Just want to be sure it is correct that is all.

    Does everybody see the hole where the cleat used be mounted on the cockpit innerliner in the video ?