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Varnish lifting at joint in toe rail etc.

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by cleanslate, May 28, 2020.

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  1. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    It's possible. But the haul out and the 100 yard ride on the lift to where they blocked me could have started the fine crack process at the joint as you pointed out.
    It was a bit unnerving to see how thin the hull is. I remove two transducers from the old Ocean. Let's say it's less than a half inch thick.
    BUT the 39 year old SOB floats and rolls along Ok even in a moderate sea.
  2. T.T.

    T.T. Senior Member

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    I have only used Smiths Clear Penetrating Epoxy for this repair, following the steps outlined above. This product is also sold under the "Rot Doctor" label. I have no affiliation, just success. Think twice about using anything else you have to thin, as this first step is the one that keeps the wood from having the ability to absorb moisture. I have used a router, saw, and sharp quality chisels. 1/4" wide x 1/4"deep, deeper if you need to to find clean grain.
  3. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Sorry to say I could not bring myself to cut into my toe rails due to the following; the joints were all nice and tight/clean with no gaps and no evidence of movement; second I only have and electric saw zaw to cut with and would have to cut from the deck of the boat, I have no dock to stand on to get at it properly. I had the saw in my hand, but I aborted the ''mission'' knowing I would really mess things up.
    Third, my boat time is hard to come buy and it was just easier to scrape the lifting varnish back a few inches on both sides of the joint , sand the varnish down flush with the wood and double coat the raw wood to the existing varnish on two weekends. I got six build up coats on , then sanded the area down smooth to blend in with the existing varnish then put on two coats over the entire toe rails. Looks real good, you can not tell where it was blended in. Color is consistent through out.

    I still agree and like most of the ideas offered to me. And perhaps with the right saw , dock and time, I will cut, epoxy seal, and fill in with sikaflex.
  4. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    2A9E4AE8-FF52-4825-8114-8834376C38E9.jpeg
    Here is the build up coats, finish two coats went on next.
  5. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Nice job.
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Smart move. Nothing wrong with that joint. (Maybe I'd have cleaned it out a little with a very fine file.) IF the joint was spread and gunked you would have cut it with a fine hand saw like you use to cope moldings with. A Sawzall would have led to a disaster. Save that for cutting 2 x 4's, tree limbs and pipes. Good job.
  7. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    +1
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Nice job, but your joint is too tight and it will happen again......
  9. T.T.

    T.T. Senior Member

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    Sawing with the right saw is one solution, I have seen a shipwright create these joints with chisels. The results looked like laser cuts!
  10. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Could you 'splain that lucy? To me, that joint is class A. Egg Harbor turned out even tighter joints year over year on its toe rails. Let's agree that maintaining quality outdoor teak fit and finish is work - particularly with 100 degrees of temperature swing through the year?
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The black in the joint is moisture. You can also see a moisture drip line from the bottom right teak plug. The joint is simply too tight. You can even see slight bulging at the joint on the top and bottom of it in the photo. The varnish didn't lift at the joint for no reason.
  12. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Agree on the moisture probability, but not the fit. Good eyes on that bulging. I would have chalked that up to edge sanding if I had even noticed it. So what's a good solution to dry it out before he applies another 6 coats? Short of a narrow saw blade?
  13. T.T.

    T.T. Senior Member

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    Capt. J has a good eye and his conclusion comes with experience. Tight joint + flexing boat + expansion and contraction is too much. The varnish will not bridge the joint and moisture finds its way in much easier than it can evaporate out. Once the moisture gets in, it to will warm up, lifting more varnish.
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    A narrow saw blade or dremel to open up the joint then fill with that putty made for teak joints then varnish.......is the only answer.
  15. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    If the joint still has some moisture it should be cleaned or cut, dried, and seal with Git-Rot epoxy first.
  16. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    So it seems once it gets wet (really wet) the saw blade seems the only option. Will a very narrow jewlers blade do the trick - I just cringe at cutting that joint wide open.
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I'm of a different opinion, although I agree the joint should have been cleaned out as I mentioned in #46. (Yes Beau a jewelers blade or file would probably be ideal for the job.) Moist wood can only shrink. That means that opening the joint further will lead to a gap as it dries. Whether to open a joint further or leave it as is and just clean it depends on the humidity where the job is done. In NJ I'd leave it as Cleanslate did. Where J is I'd probably agree with him depending on humidity at the time the job was done. You can always cut wood away. Once gone you can't put it back.
  18. d_meister

    d_meister Senior Member

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    Moisture wicks up from underneath. I would reef out as much bedding from under the wood as possible and then inject bedding in under it. Boat Life makes a thinned caulk that will be easier to force into the space. You could use West System syringes to better apply the sealant. A hack saw blade could work well for reefing the old bedding out.
    The problem with the joint in the picture is that it is close enough that any movement will "shear" whatever sealant/adhesive is in there. It does look as it's well secured, though. so the varnish should seal the top and sides from the outside.
  19. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    What about that dark middle bung, does that indicate a broader water intrusion and that new bedding may be in order as discussed above. I can't imagine that's just a carpenter's mismatch

    D meister got there while I was drafting this
  20. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Actually, I thought Cleanslate's job looked good. I'd wait till next time to revarnish, then do the cut and deal with the joint.