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USS John S. McCain - Collision in Singapore

Discussion in 'YachtForums Yacht Club' started by olderboater, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    I agree with you completely. I was just pointing out that AIS info would have been displayed on their equipment if they had had the latest nav upgrades installed. Their mission requirements and maybe budgetary considerations prevented that from happening, and that is beyond the control of the commanding officer (CO).

    The CO doesn't get to pick when he goes to sea. He follows the orders of his squadron commander, who should know the condition of CO's ship and its crew.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  2. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    All does sound a little below par....
  3. leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    Grounding in the Navy is frowned upon; "The Navy should be moored" would be better.;)

    The Navy knows how to responsibly use ships in spite of what happened to the Fitzgerald. The Fitzgerald is an example of what happens when you have an exhausted and under-trained crew. I'm sure you wouldn't get underway if your crew was exhausted and under-trained. So, what would make the commanding officer of the Fitzgerald get under way with his crew that way? The squadron commander gave him orders to get under way. His choice was to follow orders and keep his command or refuse, be relieved of command, and end his naval career.

    Now the squadron commander new the condition of the Fitzgerald and its crew. "The warship’s state of readiness was in question. The Navy required destroyers to pass 22 certification tests to prove themselves seaworthy and battle-ready before sailing. The Fitzgerald had passed just seven of these tests." (Quote from Propublica) So, why would the squadron commander order it to sea? He received orders from his superior; and up the chain it goes. Anyone who says "no" along this chain of command is out of a job, and these are ambitious people. The Fitzgerald is an example of what happens when civilians who oversee the Navy try to get more out of the Navy than the Navy has resources to accomplish safely and effectively.
  4. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    An early post said the AIS just happened to be turned off. If the comments about the Lt. lady OOD on the bridge are accurate it was a collision waiting to happen in a crowded area. Seems the Captain would have known about her limitations. If they were not using AIS or ARPA there still was radar operating?
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    The Captain should have never left port.
    After a safety shutdown and fleet release, The McCain flubbed rite up also with two months.
    That's why he left orders that she did not follow.
    I wish everybody would get off this AIS thing.
    You think all those fishing boats in that channel have AIS?
    How many Fishing boats get clobbered out there?
    It was a lack of and interference with the watch.
    If nobody was watching the stb side, who would be watching an AIS screen?
    The OOD and Observer were on the port side doing something else rather than keeping watch or watching some un-required AIS screen.
  6. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Agree 100% with your last statement. They have a impossible mission to patrol, monitor, and protect all the oceans.
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Are you kidding? The Navy has had 3 major collisions or groundings in 1 year. The McCain, the Antietam, and the fitzgerald. The Navy cannot even get the destroyer to where it needs to be, to be in a battle.
  8. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Had somebody been watching the AIS thing they may not have had the collision.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    If they were simply looking out of the window, they wouldn't have had the collision. Nobody was watching anything!
  10. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Got that right!
  11. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Looking at the window would have helped but in this case there were multiple ships, some hidden behind others. A decent radar system, not even AIS, would have helped ID targets and determine their course and speed, something a pair of inexperienced eye may not be able to accomplish
  12. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    After reading the report again, very basic when you ignore Rules Of the Road, not maintain necessary equipment, and have incompetent crew members. Hard to believe the Navy had that ship in service. Years ago SAC B-52 wings had ORI's to grade readiness. If you failed, heads rolled until fixed and Gen LeMay was happy.
  13. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    A few months ago I came across a you tube video shot on the bridge of a carrier coming into NY harbor for fleet week. It was pure mayhem with way too many people on the bridge, and you could tell that nobody really had the big picture. It was downright scary to watch
  14. leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    Am I kidding about what? If you are referring to my comment "The Navy knows how to responsibly use ships in spite of what happened to the Fitzgerald," then the answer is: No, I am not kidding. There are thousands of commanding officers (past and present) of US Navy ships that have unblemished records. So, your assertion that the "Navy cannot even get the destroyer to where it needs to be, to be in a battle" is obviously false. The question I have for you is how can you not know that?
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    But at least they would of known some ships were coming their way. The obscured boats would of been delt with later.
    IF THEY WOULD OF ONLY LOOKED. Or at least followed the captains order.
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The 3 destroyer accidents in the past year have launched several investigations into both the Pacific fleet and the Navy's entire fleet and has shown total incompetence throughout the fleet, that the complete lack of proper training and experience should have the entire fleet grounded. Try reading these reports

    https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/us-navy-crashes-japan-cause-mccain/

    https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/uss-fitzgerald-destroyer-crash-crystal/

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your...doesnt-want-you-to-read/#.XDvrs67r3JI.twitter

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your...ndecision-and-ultimately-panic-on-the-bridge/

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your...rships-crew-never-saw-the-vessel-that-hit-it/

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your...how-a-green-crew-fought-the-fitz-to-save-her/
  17. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Some of the crew on the bridge operating that ship were incompetent, some are guilty of dereliction of duty. This is not an isolated incident. Obviously the Navy brass has a real problem on their hands and needs to review their D&I experiment.
  18. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Yep
  19. leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    You should really be careful about your statements. The accidents were 2 destroyers and 1 cruiser, and all of them were part of the Seventh Fleet. All of your links pertain to the Seventh Fleet. You provide no info about the condition of the Second Fleet, Third Fleet, Fourth Fleet, Fifth Fleet, or Sixth Fleet. Without that info, how can a couple of ol' salts like you and olderboater declare that the Navy's entire fleet should be "grounded" (moored?)?
  20. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    Having sailed WESTPAC, EASTPAC, LANT, MED, CENTCOM AOR, and 4th Fleet AOR's, as a US Merchant Marine Master and deck officer, as well as my USN time previously mentioned, there IS a problem in the regions you mention too. They just have been luckier, so far.

    In answer to your question about the "old salts", I submit for your audio indulgence the collision of USS Porter in the Persian Gulf [CENTCOM]. Same class DDG, similar incompetence (only much worse since the captain was on the bridge), same result.

    https://pilotonline.com/news/military/local/article_c7472be8-efcb-5763-93bb-aab66d820175.html