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USS John S. McCain - Collision in Singapore

Discussion in 'YachtForums Yacht Club' started by olderboater, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. Iknownothing

    Iknownothing Member

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    I've watched every episode of The Last Ship so I feel I'm qualified to chime in about navy procedures and DDGs ;)

    Obviously the captain and XO were on a mission scouting the port while leaving far less qualified personal to man the ship. Then a fishing net with an IED attached to it shut down all 4 turbines and generators disabling steerage and all sensors. Any hull damage can be buffed right out, dry docks are overated.

    Sarcasm aside, DDGs show up on recreational marine radar just fine within visual distances, but I do understand the point of targets being blocked by other targets.
  2. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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  3. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    Pee bottles, kettlebells in CIC??? I am beyond speechless. Certainly not the destroyers I was on in '71 & 72. I guess the admirals and other powerbroker are more interested in a "kinder/gentler" NAVY, and the reduction of "toxic masculinity", instead of SEAMANSHIP/LEADERSHIP/WARFIGHTING!

    I am beyond disgusted!
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    The worst part is the average score on the navrule test. What a shame. Years of cuts and social engineering are taking its toll. Time to make the Navy great again!
  5. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    The Navy has been given an impossible task to patrol and police the worlds oceans and monitor everybody's everything. Time for others to get in the game instead of relying on us to handle it all.
  6. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    I would venture to say we are in that region on our own accord, it is our own priority, and a long standing one at that.

    And I have also observed the USN switching its priorities away from their core competency - Naval ship operators. The career of a ship Captain is professionally been as the bottom of the pecking order - below Naval Flight Officers and below Naval Submarine Commanders.

    The big buzzword for the Armed Forces in the last 10 years has been diversity and inclusion. Every dollar spent in that arena and every hour of training for D&I has been at the expense of developing the proper competency of Ship operators.
    They cant even keep proper housekeeping in the Command Center nor pass basic competency skills in Rules of the Road.

    Time for a reset.
  7. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    I read with great displeasure that the Operation Specialists, formerly known as RADARMEN of which I was one on destroyers in 1971-75, could not tune the radar, or adjust it for proper display. And that the condition was tolerated by the CPO's and both the Division Officer (a commissioned officer) & Department Head (also an officer).

    Without a doubt, the priorities have changed, and changed for the worse. When the commander of a submarine is relieved of command for hiring 10 local girls in the Philippines for a night on the town, (he was "turned in" by one sailor from his sub - no doubt a malcontent snowflake who was jealous that he couldn't afford 10 - who, by the way was also hiring two local girls and just not prosecuted by NCIS), then the Navy has the wrong priorities. When I was in, that kind of liberty activity although not necessarily condoned, was not a criminal or career ending event.
  8. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Agree with a reset. Never thought d&i would work because you end up with the wrong person in the wrong place for the wrong reasons. Obviously not working, kind of like diluting ant-freeze.
  9. GhostriderIII

    GhostriderIII Senior Member

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    Weren't they ordered to not turn off their AIS in heavy traffic lanes?
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I finally had to look up Diversity and Inclusion (D&I). My stomach rolled again.
    Forcing even lower standards than Affirmative Action into the military.
  11. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Forced by Diversity would be even more accurate.
  13. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    Yes. After the accident, the Navy was so directed, as I was recall.
  14. leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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  15. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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    The Propublica version is difficult to finish, as my emotions prevent me from finishing. Emotions of rage & sorrow. Because I was a radarman on destroyers in the early Seventies, I have intimate (yes, and dated) knowledge of a CIC. I spent too many hours on a SPS-10 surface search radar & a SPA-25 PPI scope to understand how the operators on FITZ were incompetent in basic radar use. And to read about the "scope-dope" who had to keep pushing the button to keep tracking - - Does the Navy no longer use grease-pencils? Look, when they took the plotting heads off the bridge radars when I was in the merchant marine, I always kept grease pencils around. [Yep, when I was master on the TAGOS vessels, I'd have the bridge mates keep current with scope plotting - just in case the ARPA died. Yes, they thought I was an A_ _hole, until the ARPA did die] Y'know stuff happens!!

    We were all required to know how to tune the radar (the officers were not that good at tuning, but they knew when the picture sucked. And it was a performance factor for RD3 & RD2!! We also knew what pulse-width (short or long) to select for conditions. We knew what the range resolution and bearing resolution was for a give PW. That no-one on watch in FITZ CIC or the bridge knew the radar was set at long-range detection is unfathomable.

    What isn’t mentioned in this reading, was the discovery of bottles of urine and weight-lifting equipment in CIC when the ship docked. (FROM NAVY TIMES, 14JAN19 - "Nothing captures the disarray aboard the destroyer better than this detail of a visit by Rear Adm. Brian Fort, who oversaw the investigation, to the vessel’s combat information center: “He saw kettlebells on the floor and bottles filled with pee”. Clearly a sign of poor leadership!!

    The OOD, Ltjg Coppock committed the most grievous of errors: 1) She passed too close to two other vessels without calling the Captain in accordance with the night/standing orders. 2) She didn’t tell the Captain about an incident in May when she miscalculated distance to a fishing boat. 3) She didn’t pay attention to the SPS 73’s radar contact with a 3/4 mile CPA on the stern. 4) And didn’t sound the collision alarm, which undoubtedly would have saved those 7 sailor’s lives.

    Yes, the captain is responsible. Yes the squadron commander is responsible. Yes COMSEVENFLT is responsible. But in the end, it’s the OOD who failed. She had a chance to stop the ship (assuming the article is correct that ABurkes can stop in 500’ to from 20kts).

    I’m going to try and finish reading the article. But not now, I’m still fuming mad.

    While I have strongly condemned the OOD, and the CO, and the admirals, I also congratulate and salute the crew who saved the vessel. They were true sailors & heroes.
  16. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Well stated, thanks for your Naval experienced perspective.
  17. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    Great perspective, John - thanks!
  18. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I finally finished the web post from post # 94.
    I will need a new keyboard. I'm afraid my tears have affected it.

    I am an Army brat. I was raised under The Doctrine.
    My career included as a DOD contractor around Jax FL for over 35 years; Kings bay, Mayport & NAS Mayport, NAS Jax, NAS Cecil, Ft Stewart, Ft Gordon, Hunter AAF, Patric AFB and more.

    My best friends are retired Navy. I have grown up with their children while the fathers were away.

    I'm of mixed emotions re; criminal charges of on-board officers. In one thought, hang them, on another thought; they were working with what they had and level of training.
    Could be the boat should have never left port under managed and under maned.
    IMO; All in COMSEVENFLT should of been flushed.

    God Bless our service personnel. I am feared they were let down.

    ,Ralph
  19. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Fascinating but can someone explain to me in plain language why a such a US Navy ship doesn’t have a radar screen on the bridge with AIS overlay??? If we have that on our little white boats... Surely the mighty USN could.
  20. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I can not.
    However, AIS is not included in the rules, Radar is.