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Trimarans and the BladeRunner...

Discussion in 'General Catamaran Discussion' started by catmando, Mar 3, 2005.

  1. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    BladeRunner & Serter Deep-V

    Navatek has teamed with the both the developer of the Serter Deep-V hull form and the developer of Bladerunner high-speed, air entrapment hull form to co-develop security/patrol boat versions of their patented hull forms. The advantages of these two hull designs are described in more detail under the link “Licensed Hull Forms.”

    The Bladerunner offers safe, predictable maneuvering and handling at speeds reaching 88 knots, providing an effective military/police craft for any mission requiring high speeds, including Navy fleet force protection against terrorist craft, delivery of special operations forces, and drug interdiction. Navatek is currently developing a 51-foot, 13-ton, 51-knot military version of this technology. With a beam of 14 feet and a draft of 4 feet, it will be powered by twin 700 HP diesel engines.

    The Serter Deep-V hull form with its anti-slamming bow and superb seakeeping has already been incorporated into the design of large patrol craft currently operated by the French, German and Turkish navies. Navatek is working with inventor Erbil Serter to develop both a 45-foot and a 100-foot security/patrol boat version. The 45-foot, 17-ton, 43-knot SDV-45® will have a draft of 4 feet and a range of 250 nautical miles at 30 knots and will be powered by three 700 HP diesel engines. Although fully adaptable to meet a wide range of military missions, it has been designed to effectively conform to the performance specifications for the U.S. Coast Guard’s new Response Boat-Medium (RBM). Although not as fast as the Bladerunner 51, it can carry a substantially larger payload

    Navatek home page http://www.navatekltd.com/index.html
  2. Ladies choice

    Ladies choice New Member

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    Batboats

    My brother has the only Batboat in the world that was reinforced with an extra 500# of fiberglass to allow him to run a 600HP engine in his Mannerfelt designed 24ft boat.
    Check out the site, www.batboats.com. I have been in the boat many times, it as smooth as a offshore boat can be, we have launched off of Ferry wakes in the SF bay and stayed airborne for about 3-4 seconds before coming down as flat as we took off that at 90+MPH!

    His boat tops out in the low 100's and when we ran outside of a race course one day the big race boat cats in the race were behind us the entire way! No way they could have kept up with us if he was in the race. Unfortunalty he isnt allowed to race his boat, they call it a experimental boat or some BS excuse when it really amounts to he didnt spend 500k or more to run three huge engines that beat the driver and crew up and still can't keep up with his one!

    Sure there are faster boats, no doubt, I haven't seen anything as comfortable though and as incredible looking though as my brothers, All this in only 24ft.
    I guess there are some new designs by Mannerfelt that are just as awe inspiring in speed and stablity and bigger as well.

    Anyone that has taken a ride with my brother including those with the 3 engined race boats cats & monohulls has come back either in total disbelief in thier expierence as to what this boat is capable of compared to thier own boats and cant wait to go do it again or will never set foot again in that boat it scared them S***less!

    I would love to see a boat like this do some long distance races like what is described to see if any records could be shattered both by size of boat and elapsed time and speed attained.
  3. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    The B-24 is a good boat without doubt, but a little on the small side for endurance records. A couple of weeks ago however, there was an attempt to break the Blue Ribbon of Sweden, by a 36 foot RIB from the same designer.

    This race stretches the entire length of the Baltic coast and they were trying to make it in about 15 hours. This boat has two Volvo D-6 diesels on 350 hp each and they were carrying 1.500 litres of fuel. Cruising speed was around 65 knots and they managed to cover a third of the race keeping the time limits, but was then hampered by bad fuel...

    I´ll post here if they will retry this year.

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  4. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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  5. catmando

    catmando Senior Member

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    I know a guy in California with 600hp in his batboat. Could he be your brother? PM me if his initials are TW.
  6. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    SeaKnife, Sea Knife

    I've received a few items, and done a little more research.

    Hope to get more, as Peter Payne appears to have done quite a bit of work in this area. Who knows, there could be some applicable data locked up in this older material.

    Here is an article from Naval Institute Proceedings publication sent to me by a fellow from Austrailia:

    SeaKnife (single hull): The first Seaknife single-hulled planning craft was launched in April 1971. A series of these craft have been built since then. In comparison with conventional deep-V planing hulls, SeaKnife has almost no lifting area in the bow (unless the waves are large enough to impact the flair and bow transom). Some bow-up pitch occurs but is corrected by the lift experienced by the increasingly wide and flared aft portion of the hull as it in turn passes through the wave A deep-V hull has approximately six inches of available travel; the 34-foot length overall racing SeaKnife of similar size has a remarkably large 60-inch wave-travel

    A SeaKnife hull built in Leningrad and tested on the Neva a River demonstrated decreased resistance as speed increased, and increased load-carrying efficiency at higher speeds. This hull could have been driven much faster had a bigger engine been installed, although resistance would have increased at higher speeds. The SeaKnife hull also has excellent directional stability.

    Racing SeaKnife (single hull): The heaviest SeaKnife built to date is the 34-foot offshore racing boat weighing 16,420 pounds fully laden with three crew members and 450 gallons of gasoline, and powered by two 500 cubic inch engines which developed 625 hp each. She has achieved speeds of 71 knots. Tests were conduced at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay by the Naval Sea Combat Systems Engineering Station’s combatant craft engineering department based at the US Naval Station, Norfolk, VA, and a field activity of Naval Systems Command. The U. S. Coast Guard and DTNSRDC also participated in the tests.

    A 38-foot deep-V open-ocean racing boat was compared with the Racing SeaKnife during the tests I rode in the deep-V planing boat in sea state three (3) with winds at 13 knots. She provided a good ride in the cockpit area, close to the center at gravity. At 26 knots, she bounced on top of waves/swells and bit in nicely and firmly. However, when I traveled forward six feet into the forward cabin, I experienced the uncomfortable effects of hard slamming and violent pitching. My ride in the Racing SeaKnife in high sea state two in the navigator’s position, while standing on a padded deck, at least eight feet forward of the of the center of gravity. My ride there at 52 knots was better than that in the deep-V boat at the center of gravity. At one point, the Racing SeaKnife rode over a wake-swell and left the surface of the water flying to the next wave and gently knifing back to a planning position on the surface. She was responsive to the throttle and wheel, slowing smooth acceleration and tight turning maneuverability.

    Two comments from the Naval Sea Combat Systems Station Report # 60-113 are noteworthy:

    “A few qualitative comments are presented since measurements were not obtained. The Sea Knife is equipped with a power steering unit making the helm forces very small. Hence, control of the craft is relatively easy and the turning system itself presents no problem. High speed turns can be performed without concern to the chines digging and tripping the hull. In fact, it is desirable to turn rather tight turns to prevent the hull from sliding out on the turn. Considering the high performance nature of the test craft and the radical hull form, there never appeared to be any unusual turning characteristics. It was further noted that when the Sea Knife was dead in the water, it, like most small craft, would eventually assume a beam sea attitude. Once in this position there was practically no roll induced by the waves. The craft would heave slightly and pitch up by the stern as a wave passed, but no significant beam sea induced rolling was noticeable.”

    The owner of the Racing SeaKnife, racing driver Ron Cain, believes that of all the boats he has handled, the Racing SeaKnife is the least demanding, most stable, and most economical on fuel. She also leaves the crew unscathed in rough water. A new lighter, larger racing SeaKnife of the same horsepower has been built, 12 meters in length (39.37 feet). She is made of aluminum. Her full load weight is 10,700 pounds. She is currently undergoing trials and should make more than 87 knots. She can go from zero to 52 knots in nine seconds and turn 60 degrees per second.


    Multi-Mission Patrol (single hull): Payne has proposed building a multi-mission patrol boat (PBM) Seaknife for the U S Navy. Weighing 71 tons fully loaded, she would make 50 knots in sea state five with low accelerations for maximum crew comfort. She will approach 100 knots in light-ship/low fuel load conditions, with a range of 1,700 nautical miles on one Allison 501-KF gas turbine engine operating at maximum continuous power A lift/drag ratio of eight was conservatively estimated. By adding additional fuel, range could be increased to more than 2000 nautical miles.

    This SeaKnife PBM design refutes a misconception held by some that there is insufficient room in a SeaKnife hull to mount a useful military payload. The Payne PBM design for either the Harpoon, Penguin, or SEAL team mission has a small overall length and weight (less by a factor of 50% than a comparable SES, and by more than 50% than a similarly configured conventional planing hull). The hull would also be easy to construct of durable 5000 Series aluminum, a common boat building material. Payne estimates PBM construction costs, less weapons and electronics, would be about 1.5 million,

    Supercritical Seaknife hulls offer an advantage over most naval platforms including aircraft and submarines (i.e., the ability to perform missions in bad weather and at speed in the harsh air/ocean interface environment). Small, easy-to-construct SeaKnife craft would offer options to boat commanders much like those available to aircraft commanders: fast reaction at long range, varied weapons/fuel loading, selection of speed profiles, efficient transit and loiter, with high reserve power for attack/evasion withdrawal. Good directional stability provided by supercritical operation makes high-speed replenishments-at-sea possible, without regard to direction of the seas, thereby decreasing vulnerability to submarine attack. Supercritical FICAT catamarans and SWATHS could provide steady platform for more efficient aircraft operations at higher speeds than are now possible, with more usable topside space for sensors, antennae, and weapons, with less interference among them.

    Small supercritical planing ships (under 500 tons) could perform open ocean missions as escorts and decoys because of their seaworthiness. SeaKnife ships would excel in advanced hostile areas: performing clandestine special warfare missions; in amphibious operations, as high-speed minesweepers (manned or unmanned), for shore bombardment, and as high-speed landing craft; for patrol and blockading; conducting riverine patrol and supply; and as FACs against opposing FACs and even larger naval combatants, by using relatively short-range smart missiles and/or torpedoes. To paraphrase a mine warfare motto, ‘to successfully operate where the Fleet is going,” will require fast, maneuverable, and seaworthy ships with the supercritical hull technology. The SeaKnife concept is the key to future surface naval warfare success.

    Photos
    1) The Soviet version of the SeaKnife demonstrated decreased resistance as speed increased, and load-carrying efficiency at higher speeds.

    2) The US Racing SeaKnife, with her single hull in full view, has achieved speeds of 71 knots

    3) SeaKnife hulls, such as the SeaKnife PBMs manned with SEAL teams, offer options to boat commanders much like those available to aircraft commanders; fast reaction at long range, a varied weapons/fuel loading, selection of speed profiles, and efficient transit and loiter.

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  7. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Original Patent, SeaKnife

    ABSTRACT

    A boat capable of cutting through rough waves at high speed with astonishing stability has a hull provided with a flat planing surface, which in plan is the shape of a thin wedge or delta. The sides of the boat rise upwardly and outwardly with a simple concave curvature from the two edges leading from a knife edge bow at the point of the wedge. The slender wedge shape moving through the water at high speeds develops continuous spray sheets up its sides, which are intercepted by the outwardly curving portions of the hull sides. Spray rails or deflectors may also be utilized to intercept the spray sheet, such deflectors being inclined at a small angle to the bottom of the planing surface. The knife edge bow rises upwardly and forwardly with a concave curvature from the point of the wedge and eventually terminates in a forwardly sloped bow transom. A keel skeg minimizes side-slipping. A stern transom, which rises substantially perpendicular to the trailing edge of the delta or wedge may have a rearwardly extending bustle secured thereto for buoyancy roll stability at low weeds.

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  8. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    SeaKnife patent (continued)

    I
    HIGH SPEED BOAT WITH PLANING HULL

    RELATED APPLICATIONS

    This application is a continuation-in-part of my prior application Ser. No. 167,737 tiled July 30, 1971, now 5 abandoned in favor of this application.

    BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

    1. Field of the Invention
    The present invention is directed to a high speed boat 1 which does not slam or pound waves but cuts through them to ride smoothly at high speed even in rough seas.
    2. Prior Art
    The long established means of water transportation is the displacement hull which is supported by buoyancy. The speed of such a craft is limited by the high skin friction caused by large surface area in contact with the water, the pressure drag due to waves generated by the hull’s passage through the water and the suction forces on the bottom of the hull tending to pull deeper into the water as speed increases. The planing hull was developed in an effort to circumvent these disadvantages and it was found that certain hull shapes, characterized by “open” water line planforms at the stern experience a net positive pressure when underway, so that the hull lifts out of the water with a consequent reduction in wetted area. The reduction in wetted area, and the more favorable flow around that part of the boat still in the water, permits a planing craft to be accelerated through the region of high pressure drag caused by wave making, provided the boat has sufficient power. On calm water, a planing hull is very efficient and speeds approaching 100 m.p.h are normal for quantity produced “sport boats” and speeds in the order of 200 m.p.h. are achieved by racing hydroplanes. Unfortunately, water is rarely smooth, and in waves such boats are subject to pounding which is physiologically intolerable and can also break up the hull structure. Thus, although it is both efficient and simple, the planing craft is not able to operate at high-speed in waves.

    Because there is a great need for water craft capable of high speeds, many alternative vehicle concepts have been developed in attempts to evade the problem of pounding. Some Of these prior art developments are the surface-piercing hydrofoils, fully submerged .hydrofoils, air cushion vehicles, captured air bubble craft, super critical displacement hulls and submarines. It would be inappropriate to analyze the characteristics of each of these vehicles here, but it should be noted that only submarines and fully submerged hydrofoils have clearly circumvented the pounding problem while all are much more complicated than a planing boat. This added complexity manifests itself in greatly increased first cost, decreased reliability and severe operation limitations of one kind or another.

    The planing craft only planes on a small portion of its bottom at high speeds. When such a craft encounters a wave, the lifting area is greatly increased and the craft experiences the upward acceleration which is the most marked feature of pounding. Because of the inertia of the water in the wave, the magnitude of this acceleration is much greater and would be calculated simply from the increase in wetted area. Thus, the problem which exists is derived from the fact that most planing craft have planing surfaces which are much too large.

    Others have utilized the “deep-V” in hull design in order to reduce pounding. Although it is generally supposed that a deep-V somehow cushions the impact, it actually reduces the efficiency of the lifting surface and hence, in effect, constitutes a reduction of the planing surface size for a given boat size. Unfortunately, the deep-V not only does not reduce the wetted area, but actually increases it thereby leading to higher skin friction drag.

    Hydrofoils raise the hull of the boat up out of the water so that high speeds can be obtained but the hydrofoil is limited in rough sea operations by the distance the hull is raised out of the water. Thus, with waves above a certain size, the boat will be subjected to the same severe pounding that ordinary planing craft are subjected to.

    SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

    The present invention provides a high-speed boat with a planing hull, which is not subjected to pounding in waves, but cuts through the waves, thereby giving the boat an amazingly steady level ride. The boat is not only efficient at high speed but has excellent seaworthiness at low speed due to its low natural frequencies in roll, and pitch. At high speed, the boat is stabilized by spray sheets thrown up that contact the hull sides.

    The boat is simple and rugged in construction. Preferably, all of the exterior surfaces of the boat are either planar or provided with a simple curvature as opposed to other high speed boats all which include compound curvatures, thus increasing cost and complexity.

    The boat of the invention is provided with a unique bow configuration, which allows the boat to
    through most waves, thereby reducing the pounding effect. However with extremely large waves, ‘the lift characteristic of the inclined bow transom enables the boat to ride over such waves.

    The boat of this invention is provided with delta-shaped or thin wedge-shaped planing surface with the sides of the boat extending upwardly and outwardly with a concave curvature from the leading edges of the delta or wedge. Such a configuration substantially reduces the wetted area giving a reduction in skin friction, It also produces continuous spray sheets from the sides which contact the outwardly curving sides to provide both stabilization and lift. The delta-shaped bottom is normally submerged so that passage through a wave does not result in an increase in lifting area. The delta-shaped configuration of the deck results in the aerodynamic center being located well aft to provide a boat, which is almost impossible to “flip.” The concave curvature of the sides of the boat, allows the boat to bank into far tighter turns than was ever possible with prior art boats. The same concave curvature of the sides also leads to a relatively dry cockpit in rough weather since the spray thrown upwardly is directed outwardly and downwardly rather than upwardly as is customary with boats having a convex hull configuration. These spray sheets add to stability in turns. Deflector rails may be placed on the sides of the hull to intercept the continuous spray sheets, a keel-skeg may be used on the bottom of the hull to minimize side slip, and trim tabs or other means may be utilized to counteract propeller torque. While a single wedge shaped hull is desired in most cases for a powered craft, a number of separate but connected slim wedge shaped hulls are useful in other vessels, e. g., a sailing trimaran with one wedge forward and two wedges aft.

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  9. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Thanks for posting Brian,

    As always I am surprised that people are seeking for patents and pattern protections since this is almost impossible to defend. And very little money to make as well? Better to get a first mover advantage if you have a good idea!

    The above description fits with the Bladerunner and other fast trihulls, and even more with what I have on this line of boats, running on three delta-shaped skis to put it simple. So what´s new and what is not is always interesting, but I think that hull shapes are never universal, every single boat should have what´s appropriate for it´s size, speed and use. :)

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  10. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Pioneering Work

    But remember Lars this was very pioneering work on hull shapes back in the mid 60's (50 years ago!), and some of it was being prepared for defense contractors.
  11. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Yes, maybe it was justified then. But I compare with the hype on stepped hulls today, that our family had on a boat from the 50's and which was so common and superior they were not even allowed in powerboat racing already in the 1920's!

    Twin or multi-stepped boats are not new either and this can be a long story... :D
  12. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    More Pioneering by Payne

    And how about this design patent by Payne. Rather similar to BladeRunner. Remember, this fellow was foremost a mathmatician, not a boat designer

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  13. catmando

    catmando Senior Member

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    It is amazing that a 34' boat weighing almost 16,500 pounds with just 1250hp could run over 70mph!! :eek:
  14. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Dick Newick Tri-Hull Power Vessel

    Here is a power boat trimaran from an unusual source, sailing's Dick Newick...always innovative.

    I ran across a picture in some old notes of mine and then looked it up on the internet, only to find it is presently for sale;

    "34' Flying Fish , High speed quality aluminum custom trimaran by Dick Newick/Harry Schoell. Low hours on 600hp 588 cu.in. V8 driving a PSI surface drive, 155 gallon in two AFL fuel cells, V-berth, head, full electronics, max beam 9'10", draft 16", 3600# displ. Cruises dry and comfortably at 49 kts @4300 RPM, top end 60+ knots @5200 RPM, over 300 mile range, unique boat on special four wheel trailer w/brakes" . Wells Yachts, Marblehead


    I just found another reference to this vessel and some pictures at http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7936&postcount=10

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    Last edited: Sep 1, 2005
  15. catmando

    catmando Senior Member

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    Cockpit is small for a 34' boat. Needs to be widened out over the sponsons.

    I've met Harry Schoell. His single step hull design planes off very fast.
  16. catmando

    catmando Senior Member

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    Here's my wierdo

    This is Art Carlson's design of the air-entrapment monohull concept.

    24' LOA
    8'6" Beam
    3500lbs Fully rigged w/110gals fuel
    BBF472ci
    600hp
    Bravo1 outdrive

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  17. catmando

    catmando Senior Member

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    As you can see from the last two pics, the V goes down to the waterline, then flattens out all the way back to the transom. Mr. Carlson told me(after I had purchased the boat) that he made a mistake designing it that way, and my old butt agrees with him!!

    I can also say that this boat flies flat and straight, much like the Batboat. In turns, however, there is no lean, just a flat arc no matter how hard you crank the wheel over. It is a very forgiving hull and I'm sure the Bladerunner will handle just as beautifully as this one does.

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  18. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    Bigger tunnels than you see on today's air-slot mod-V scooters.

    Kelly
  19. catmando

    catmando Senior Member

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    They are approx. 14'X2'X2'. There is no compression in the tunnels as they are the same height front to rear unlike true cats whose tunnels become shallower toward the transom. I feel the hull start to lift very smoothly at about 40mph as it starts to pack air. Most cats have pronounced lifting strakes. You can feel the hull "jump" vertically at a certain speed. My boat does not have those.
  20. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Thanks for showing us your little darling! With that power you must be brave, is it approaching 100 knots? We had a 25-foot monohull with 700hp which made 90+ in race trim...