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Trawler Vs. Motoryacht

Discussion in 'General Trawler Discussion' started by gccolvin, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Hi Brian,

    This type of boats are called Kotter in the Netherland. A Person called van der Poel, working for Klaasen Shipyard around 1970, started his own business in building steel boats for inland waterways. His products became known under the brand name Stella Maris. He built custom steel Kotters and Vlets from around 10 to 15 Meters with angular and canoe type stern and round bilge. The famous Designer Peter Belsnijder was somehow involved in their design. At least one example was built as a motorsailer with ketch rig. Your friends Stella Maris 44 must be one of those boats. To my best knowledge, this company does not exists any more for more than 25 years.

    Below one more example of those boats.

    Attached Files:

  2. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Thanks very much HTM09, that certainly appears to be the case. I knew if anyone should know it would be you. :cool:
  3. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Thank you Capt J, been out of town for most of last week...and am having to catch up here. A true displacement hull will never exceed the "hull speed". And thanks for the equation...it's been so long I had forgotten how to calculate hull speed.
  4. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Brian,
    While I enjoy your posts, and comments greatly, and appreciate your boating knowledge, I have to disagree with you on your love of blow boats. I don't know about the rest of you...but I've gone though life being snake bit...Murphy was a distant cousin of mine apparently. Crossing a Ocean in a blow boat would (to me) be paramount to playing Russian Roulette. It would be my luck to get de-masted during a storm in the middle of the trip and left to drift to God's know where. I'm just saying. I'm sure I'm going to get the probability's of that happening to be like a million to one....but I would be the one.
  5. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Kuipers Shipyard

    I was talking to someone here, and was told that Kuipers was bought by a French/Italian company and they are welding/making stainless steel tanks for putting milk or other farm product into.
    What a freakin' waste of talented workmen. IMHO Kuipers built the finest boats ever built steel or otherwise. They've taken 4th and 5th generation artists, and turned them into working for a paycheck hacks. Makes me want to cry. It's akin to buying out Waterford, and shipping the workers to Mexico to make glass ashtrays.
  6. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Neo, blow boaters are are a different breed and with your definition probably a little bit more optimistic type of human. Sailors are IMHO the "true sons of Magellan" (Copyright Marmot :)) and sailing is for sure not as dangerous as you think. Bluewater Sailboats are even more redundant, more stable and more seaworthy than many powerboats. The have a second means of propusion, the wind! And modern sails and riggs can take a puff, believe me.

    But it is most likely much easier to convince a man, who does prefer the company of men more than women, about dating an attactive girl than convincing a powerboater by heart about the beauty of sailing.

    I for my part would not have any problem at all, to take on those sailboats below for an ocean crossing or a world tour without hesitation. I admit, I took some of the best variants of its class for this example.

    Attached Files:

  7. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Well said to an uninformed (being polite) post.
  8. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Sailboat... by whatever pejorative you what including "blow boat" and "snail boat" and "slanty boat" are what mostly crosses the oceans on their own bottoms now-a-days in the private boat or yacht category... and its always been that way.

    The problems are:
    1. a little more confined in living space and also window area than power boats making them somewhat like a submarine
    2. they have two propulsion means sails and motor (usually) making them more expensive per unit length and more complex.
    3. deck area is limited and restricted by rigging for the sails
    4. take more skill and knowledge to "sail"
    5. they slant as they sail on a tack

    Sailors accept these things... landlubbers don't. Particularly ladies hate the restrictions and particularly the slant part... you will find that mourning, evening and in between bathroom time must be considered by those sailing boat when non sailor ladies are aboard... if you want a happy life.
  9. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    I wouldn't get too stressed about it, most of them probably got paid to build boats too.

    Holland is well known for having farmers build boats so it is not so much of a deviation from the norm for these guys.
  10. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    I didn't want to quote HTM09, due to the attached photos, but this is in response to his post. I'm actually a fairly decent sailor, raced 14 ft Hobie Cats as a kid, and in my later years, actually owned a Blow boat. Growing up in Miami, we attended quite a few DEA drug auctions. A boating buddy of mine attended with me, and to this day, I still maintain that I was intoxicated. Anyway, we ended up being the high bidder for a 42' Morgan Out Island. We rebuilt the interior, pulled the Atomic 4 and had it rebuilt. The only thing new were the Sails, a Main and a 120 degree Jib. No spinnaker. Well the mast was so tall that we couldn't make it out of Haulover Inlet, so we had to motor down to the Miami cut to sail out. We decided to grab our girlfriends and sail over to Bimini one weekend. No electronics, we used dead reckoning (to this day, I think that's a terrible name for navigation) Long story short, we lost air halfway across and the little Atomic 4 was no match for the Gulfstream. The girls were freaking out, and by nightfall we had to motor back to Walkers Cay about an hour motoring south. We sailed back to Bimini spent the night onboard, I had to sleep in a hammock slung under the boom, way too claustrophobic to sleep below. And on the way back, my only comment to my partner in crime was "I don't care how much we lose...sell this b**ch, and I'm done with blow boats forever. I still have nightmares about that trip from time to time. So from then on, I want real engines to get me to where I want to go. Probably why I never pursued getting my Glider rating! And don't get me started on halyard slaps against the mast...it's my version of water torture!
  11. SFS

    SFS Senior Member

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    As a sailor of 40+ years, and a pilot of 30+ years, it's my opinion that being a sailor improves your overall boating skills, and being a glider pilot improves your overall flying skills. They both teach you a LOT about kinetics and the management of stored energy. However, the prices you pay for mistakes are often measured in different currencies.
  12. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    Mostly German, they tend to leave a mark.
  13. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Well said SFS. As a man with higher numbers both on sailing and (glider) flying years (also I believe just being old is not a merit itself), I could not agree more.

    Remember the old saying: Glider pilots do it quietly, while doing it. Because they are doing it quietly, the have to think more, while doing it :).

    And the same counts for sailors. Both are running on empty.

    That is the reason, why many sailors (boaters) are flying and vice versa. Competing with nature and the enviroments, having a decent knowledge about the principle of our atmosphere and interpreting its phenomena, called weather, is the real challenge on the oceans and in the air.

    I have no clue about sport fishing but I can imagine the thrill, sitting in the fighting chair, trying to bring in a big tuna. One must have seen seen and done things like this, to really understand.

    Attached Files:

  14. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Wow...we've gotten so far off topic....I'm gonna need a GPS to find my way back! My humble apologies Carl, I'm sure this was mostly my fault!
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    How are we talking about Sailboats in a trawler VS. motoryacht posting?
  16. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Sorry gentleman but I had to defend a fellow sailor :p.

    Back to subject then.

    The big community of boaters is devided IMHO into several sometimes unapproachable groups. Slow boater, fast boaters, blow boaters and what my son calls them, purpose boaters. People who are using their boats for a specific purpose like racing, fishing, water skiing, whatever, where the boat is only a tool for the hobby or profession and not as an end in itself. I for myself like all kinds of boating, just for the fun of doing it. I am so stupid, I even make my living out of ships :D.

    I have strong members of most of the above groups in my own family. At get togethers in the family, you should here the discussions about who has discovered the final secrects about true boating!

    The interesting point is, almost all of my grown up children and my closer relatives enjoy motor boating (of all types) and sailing (to some extend).

    But the really hard point are in the discussions between the slow and the fast boaters amongst us. As this discussion is endless and no winner to be seen on the horizon (why should there be a winner), I have started to search for the possibility of bringing these to worlds together.

    A type of monohull (sorry Brian), that combines the the volume, the seaworthiness and economy of a full displacement hull with the ability to go beyond hull speed, when needed. The best of both worlds.

    One way of approaching this subject in my opinion is the fast displacement hull. The famous Dutch naval architect and scientist, Peter van Oossanen has some interesting ideas in this field. Would like to hear your opinion about his ideas.

    Van Oossanen Naval Architects – Fast Displacement Hull Form
  17. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Euronly joking, surely?
  18. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno


    SeemsNormalToMe.jpg



    Absolutely and apparently not understood by others.


    My mind at play:

    Oops = That will leave a mark = currency = Deutsche Mark = post.
  19. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    OP the joke was understood but far to easy. You can do better :D.
  20. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Just a real quick look thru that site, leads me to understand that his 'improved hulls' are those for power boats, not keeled displacement sailing craft.