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Thread stripping.

Discussion in 'YachtForums Yacht Club' started by Beau, Feb 10, 2015.

  1. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Carl

    That's too bad that you took that action. The thread was very much in part about how YF handled this poster with valid info to share. This discussion involved your moderator and was very illuminating, it also was responsive to your first post chastising the guy. Did YF receive some honest and helpful comments that it didn't like? I'm thinking censorship here...and that drops you a whole lot of notches, if true.

    I'm only one recreational member, but I hope this comment doesn't disappear, because I certainly will....
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
  2. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Beau,

    I took action on request of others. Why do you keep derailing threads? If you have an issue with me, or any of our mods, then open a thread in the yacht club. This thread was stripped to get back on topic.

    And you can cry censorship, but I'm going to move your post and my response because again... it is not relevant to the thread.
  3. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Hum, I wonder who the others were ? We had a pretty good on point discussion going from what I read. I don't have a personal issue with any of you/ Where in the world did that come from - because I had some constructive advise on one thread? There was a valid discussion going as to how info gets on YF, and I think that struck a nerve with someone at YF. I don't believe that I am deluding myself that I have very rarely taken a thread off topic, particularly this last one. Again, where did that comment come from? I fear "the emperor does not want to hear he is wearing no clothes" Wonder how long this post lasts?

    I have always thought highly YF

    Bye
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
  4. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    OK Beau, fire away. In the interim, I'm going to share a little bit of what goes on behind the screen. Hopefully with insight, you will have a better understanding.

    We catch over 95% of the spam, solicitations or promotions before you guys ever see it. While you're sleeping, working, driving, eating, boating or surfing the net, we're here at YF around the clock. And we've been here for 12 years. Over the years, we've seen just about every conceivable attempt to manipulate this medium. We actually embrace it, because we learn from it.

    You've raised raised questions about our moderation, but you don't have the experience we do, nor do you have tools at your disposal to determine the nature or intent of the member/post/thread. Remember a couple of weeks ago when YF prompted you to fill out your bio? This information helps us determine intent, along with an email and IP address. It was not YOUR intent we are concerned with, it is generally new members. With only this basic information, Lars and I have been able to weed-thru about 99% of the BS. The other 1% become posts that don't get removed, but they get a warning.

    While you can certainly take exception with how we handle things (I'll be the first too admit I'm not the most diplomatic) you can't argue the results. A few years ago, the entire industry was attempting to plug themselves on YF. We soon grew tired of trying to teach proper internet etiquette. We took a hard line - a zero tolerance approach - and when we did, the majority of the BS came to a screeching hault.

    I would venture to guess you're not aware of the numerous daily emails I write to companies attempting this, or to individuals that try to use YF slander a manufacturer or pose as an independent 3rd party to endorse a product or company that hired them. IT IS CONSTANT! For this reason, I posted my original correspondence with Richard in our private thread on brokerage, for senior members to see. This was not Richard's first attempt at exploiting YF and to his credit, he fessed up publically and in private. As we've all seen now, he's used the thread to Tweet it to many different outlets by repeatedly bumping the thread. My gut was right on this guy. So was Lars. Just because you didn't see it that way, doesn't mean we were wrong.

    From the very beginning, I said... I will let the thread stand! I didn't remove it. I didn't censor it. But I set boundaries, again because I knew his MO. You did NOT.

    And finally, if you don't trust us to make decisions in the best interest of the community, then I have no retort.
  5. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Carl

    I am not battling, only trying to have a conversation. We all know you work very hard. I am not denying your vigilance or work ethic, I was merely pointing out as an end user of your forum that, in this case, I feel that I was being denied useful information by the moderators. You let the second post one go thru, but I don't remember seeing any of his first multiple posts. You are going to have to deal with disgruntled purchasers who use the net as he did. Its a fact of life. I deal with it regularly on behalf of our municipal and public corporation clients. When you hold YF out to be a dealer and purveyor of information as your business model, I think you need to separate backroom process for dealing with these issues from the front of the forum. IMO that whole thread would have developed differently without your initial and unnecessary comment - deal with him off the public forum was my suggestion? but let his information "shine" though. Thought: Suppose one of your highly respected members posted a Utube of that video, would you have deleted it? I think no. So we are talking about process not content.

    Carl, I hope you will take my thoughts as constructive comment ( Read the first sentence of your last post. Is that how you perceive me, too bad) Its been a joy, no further comment is necessary. Lets just agree to disagree on how content gets, or doesn't get to YF
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I'm sorry Beau, but that was not censorship. It was moderating. The OP was chastised and warned by the mods for a prior infraction, but that thread was about the problems with an Azimut yacht, not YF's policies.

    As members, our responsibility is to notify the moderators if we find something wrong, but we're not the YF police nor judge. The YF staff does a very good job at that all by themselves.

    I found that video very illuminating, and followed the thread through the day. Then I went to bed. When I clicked on in the morning I couldn't believe how far afield the thread had gone overnight. It was hijacked, and was a complete waste of my time having to read all those posts that had absolutely nothing to do with the OP's experience with Azimut and MarineMax.
  7. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    No worries Beau. It's all good. We're grateful for your concern and passion for YF.

    100's of threads get started without my interjection. Yes, the Azimut Video thread may have gone in a different direction had I not posted a warning. Equally, it went in a different direction because you took exception with my warning. We work in a public venue, therefore anyone can call me to the mat at any time. I may not always be right, but I think it's better to point out my shortcomings in a separate thread, so we don't derail an existing thread.

    As a side note, I'm not really on top of my game right now. I had an MRI about a month ago. Torn meniscus (medial meniscal posterior horn tear, to be exact). I was scheduled for arthroscopic knee surgery on the 26th of January, then cancelled after learning about stem cell knee surgery, in which I have a consult next Tuesday. Yesterday, following a sprint in pouring rain, I completely blew my knee out. I'm on crutches, knee braced and popping pain killers like Mentos. I wish I had proceeded with traditional arthroscopic in January now because I may have done more serious damage. Have a Thursday morning doctors appt and probably another MRI to determine the extent of the damage.

    Not to complain. Some of our members have much more serious challenges. My prayers go out to them.
  8. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Beau, I'm sorry but I have to side with Carl and YF here. What Carl has stated above is 110% true....and besides He's the Publisher and Owner of this site, and right or wrong, in my mind he's does what he thinks is fair. I don't have to tell you how many times my responses to Threads, or entire Threads I started get deleted....I don't get sore, he does what he thinks is right. After 816 posts, and being a Senior Member, I can't believe you'd throw in the towel over somebody who obviously is trying to use YF to add credibility to an over beaten dead horse. My 2 cents.
  9. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Carl,
    I have a friend who's knee was so bad, he had to stop riding his horses, and 5 years prior to that had to use boarding steps. Anyway he had the Stem Cell procedure done out in Colorado, I spoke with him over the weekend, it's been 6 weeks, and he has no pain and walks better than he ever did...he was walking great 2 weeks after the procedure. He used the Regenexx system, if you want PM me, and I'll give you his number and let you talk directly to him...and this guy is no spring chicken, he's pushing 70.
  10. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Thanks Brian. Thats reassuring! I've been reading about Regenexx. Meeting with the ex-CEO of Cleveland Clinic next Tuesday to look at my MRIs and determine if I'm a candidate. Might take you up on your offer. Thanks again!
  11. RT46

    RT46 Senior Member

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    Hang in there Beau!!!

    Beau is an asset to YF and the Post Crowd!
  12. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Sometime I get too gnarly and can get stuck in gear, thanks guys for straightening me out....
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I know you're sensitive to censorship, but without any there would be no forum. It's a very difficult decision for moderators and administrators to make, but the value of a forum depends on it. There was a thread I was all ready to respond to the other day, but a moderator removed the OP's post first as he saw it as a backdoor attempt to promote his product based on both email and ip. Just in my time here, which is much shorter than yours, I've seen brokers, dealers, and manufacturers try to self promote. Censorship isn't always a dirty word.

    Carl is also very knowledgeable and careful as related to search engines, which again bring people here and help bring value to the site. They don't react kindly to thread and topic bumping, certain types of links, and other things he tries to remove. There is also a line between providing information and opinion and trying to help others versus one's own agenda which may be retribution or revenge.

    It's generally not the topic involved. Azimut has received wide criticism on the forum. Every time I've ever seen them mentioned warnings have been raised by members. Now, I'm sure they have some happy owners and would love to hear from them. Just I don't personally know any.

    Also for you and others who question Carl removing posts and taking other actions, there are probably an equal number of us who question him at times over letting too much in and letting people go too far. Guess when he's got all of us questioning him but an equal number on each side, he'll have achieved a perverse nirvana.

    One final thought on the topic. Sometimes people start to think forums are public domains and freedom of speech is involved and they should be able to do anything they want. Well, that's just not the case. They're owned by someone and they're that person or entity's domain to govern as they see fit. And no one has the incentive to find the right balance and govern in the best way possible that those who have invested their time, energy and money do. For us, it's a pleasurable sidebar of our day. For them it's part of them as they're personally invested in ways far exceeding our own involvement. I've disagreed with Carl before, but chosen to express that in private. Still, I see it as just a difference of opinion and not as something greater or a matter of principle or something over which I want to enter into a public battle over. Honestly, I will support him wholeheartedly publicly even while telling him he's wrong over something in private, because I know it's a matter of judgement and he has to make that which he feels is right. He has everything to lose if he's wrong. I have nothing at stake.
  14. leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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  15. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Food for thought. Carl is the forum owner and administrator. When you own a forum then you can set the rules. Carl in his dual role as owner and administrator determines the purpose of moderation here. It's not a democracy. Make a large capital investment in the forum and then you'll be able to share the decision making. You and I don't otherwise get to make the rules.
  16. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    What is different with YF:s compared to a forum on cooking or the climate scam, is that we are dealing with some of the most expensive toys ever made. With their designers, builders, crew and owners, which can be delicate at times...

    Besides, as a moderator, I am never deleting things permanently. If I see something I am questioning, I am "soft deleting" it for the approval of Carl. Sometimes he disagrees and reinstate the post or thread. I think this has worked pretty well over the last ten years..?
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    As adults we generally believe in what we're saying or we don't say it. So we're reluctant to change our opinion without some convincing. Most, when they realize they're wrong, go silent, The ones I respect most do what you did here.
  18. AlfredZ

    AlfredZ Senior Member

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    +1

    Couldn't have said it better.
  19. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    I read the article hyper linked above, and I disagree with the article. If that type of loosy goosy moderating were to be adopted here...this Forum would be a mad house. I think Carl and his gang have this Forum firmly in hand, and do the best job that works for them, even when I get slapped on the wrists both publicly and privately....I know it's nothing personal, it's for the integrity of the Forum. I've been on other Forums and they are either crap or don't last very long....bottom line, this system works. Keep up the good work gang!
  20. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    For the success this forum has, the search rankings, the longevity, it's very clear Carl has done far more right than wrong. Well, except not getting his knee surgery when he should have.