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The Wealth Gap Widens...

Discussion in 'YachtForums Yacht Club' started by YachtForums, Nov 8, 2011.

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  1. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Well, take a look at the actual numbers for the "average" worker:

    http://bls.gov/oes/2010/may/figure34.pdf

    Here are the figures for the highest paid:

    http://bls.gov/oes/2010/may/figure35.pdfhttp://bls.gov/oes/2010/may/figure35.pdf

    Have a browse here to select the worker you think is paid too much:

    Chart book: Occupational Employment and Wages, May 2010

    Using an example of a one in a billion worker who can't even spell his name but gets paid more than a surgeon is a populist way to rouse the rabble and stir up class envy and hatred - which is what is going on in this country now - obviously works well. When the rabble are too lazy to look at the real figures we get what we've got now. It is a sad commentary on the state of the nation.
  2. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    It's a good thing that our border security is only about as good as what one would use to fence off their swimming pool .. this way, Americans can still escape to go find work in another country since that is where the jobs are going.

    Also good is that if we continue to grow our government, then soon the USA will be in a position to RECEIVE checks from governments who don't want the USA to fail and deteriorate into civil war and anarchy.

    So ... I agree with NYCAP123 that we are headed in the right direction. We just need more guys like Van Jones to help us get there quickly!

    We could even change the name of this place to something more current and representative of the facts like The "United States Socialist Republic". Has a nice ring to it ... USSR.
  3. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Wealth gap

    My last post didn't make it, here goes again, I guess the wealth has moved out of the US, I did not realize you guys made less than we did in Canada, before I retired 5 yrs ago, my first line ( field) employee made over 75K plus benefits, my secretary was over 55K, my Son, who gained his early years work experience at K Mart and MacDonalds, was making 100K, he is a non HS grad, currently at 150k and growing.
    I had very few journeymen making less than 42 K plus benefits. At time I read that a bus driver in LA was making 60 k plus and with overtime was 80k.

    Interesting too that the output per person in mfg. in the US is higher than that in Canada.

    Leads one to ask the question, how can you Americans afford those boats and Yachts that are still on the water, being used, traded and upgraded, all those new fancy cars, vacations, surely not only the very rich ??
  4. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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  5. Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    Hi Marmot,

    I did not see Yacht Captains on your lists or are they in the top 1% as most seem to get paid $1,000 per ten foot of yacht.

    Also how about the bill I just paid for a mechanic to come and check out 2 engines, 2 transmissions and three generators, take 7 oil samples, he arrived at 7.30am and left at 3.45pm, the bill was $3,966.52.

    or about $450 per hour.

    or about $18,000 per week

    or about $72,000 per month

    or about $864,000 per year.

    That degree appears a bit of a waste of time when you see what a Captain and a mechanic can earn.
  6. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Wealth gap

    It took me many years before I was earning more than my highest paid employee, flirting with bankruptcy, losing a house, that was 165 K now valued at 900k, yes , small biz owners have it tougher than those big execs who make multi millions but I ain't complaining about that wealth gap that's up to the shareholders to decide if the share value they own is being suppressed or is realistic along with dividends to match, or, have we become a Nation of stock exchange gamblers ? trading stock strictly for profit instead of holding it as having faith in long term stability ?
    Warren Buffet is I think a prime example of a smart exec and investor, look for quality , buy it and hold, just like we used to do with our homes.
  7. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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  8. dd12v71

    dd12v71 New Member

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    ask ghaddafi

    this debate will continue I am sure, regardless of the facts and statistics which are undeniable. the middle and working classes are being paid less while the corporate titans and masters of finance grow the wealth in their pockets because they can. the breaking of the labor movement since Reagan, the internationalization of trade and investment rules--which only benefit capital-not labor, and the increasing secrecy of massive amounts of Karl Rove type campaign financing effectively neuters effective gov't regulation. the ultimate answer always comes eventually whether it is Marie Antoinette--let them eat cake, or more recently Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and soon syria. Anybody remember the the decline and fall of a dozen Eastern Bloc dictators less than 2 decades ago? The top of the economic ladder has a choice to make--enlightened self interest where everybody gets a share of the wealth like during the Clinton years where they did quite well or more greed, corruption and arrogance of the Bush years where they grab an increasing share of a smaller pie until the system collapses--which it nearly did in 2007--and the gov't and the populace refuse to bail them out again. lets see what the barons say when they get their jets repo'd.
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Boy did you retire at exactly the right time. Today, if that company was in the U.S. the workforce would have been reduced by 50% to 90% and the remaining employees would be having their paychecks cut considerably. No chance you'd like to adopt another (older) son I suppose? As for your last question the answer is that the only boats selling are over 50'. Many of the smaller boats aren't getting their bottoms wet. The cars are leased or bought on credit (reposession are at an all time high). What's a vacation?
  10. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Wealth gap

    Yep, lets do what the Euro zone experimented with, capitalized socialism. Abject failure, when you stop the cream from rising to the top you just get a lousy bottle of milk. Proof of the pudding stares some in the face and yet they blame someone else, if one gets off ones butt and does something to create wealth and enjoy it they would be better off rather than *****ing about their neighbour.
  11. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Wealth gap

    Whenever one has an engine failure on the boat, or a failure of an important piece of electrical gear, what's the procedure for future prevention of the same problem ??

    Do we see that there was a lack of lube oil, add more oil and away we go ?

    Do we see that a fuse failed, replace it and off we go ??

    Or, do we do the smart thing and trace the originating cause of the problem, that's what we are supposed to do, same with an economy, stop whining about present conditions and rich people, America decided it was a democracy and it's economy was capitalistic system based, if that is what has failed, then investigate and rectify or choose an alternate and take the consequences, just like instead of fixing the electrical or mechanical issue, throw the piece away, buy a new one made in China...
  12. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    The problem is failure to balance the federal government budget. Our costs have increased dramatically in a non-linear fashion to the rate that our population has grown. Unless we balance the budget we are doomed. We will not balance the budget and therefore we are .... Doomed.

    Prepare for war.
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Presidents have been asking for a line-item veto for as long as I can remember, except when they held the majority in both houses. Then they don't want it because it's currently their buddies piling on the pork, and God forbid the next president (who might not be in their clique) should be able to veto their pork. The buck is supposed to stop at the Oval Office, but it just runs through under the current system.
    Problem is a few guys bought up most of the cream and don't want any more produced so theirs will be worth way more than it would ever be ethically, honestly or morally, but most times it's at least semi-legally. Lawyers and Lobbyists are wonderful at working that out.
    Right now our system is radically broken. When you have a party that would allow this nation to default on its debts, and sacrifice our credit rating rather than have someone pay a little more in taxes, the system is broken. When a party vows at the start of a new administration to give it no co-operation, the system is broken. When you have a large segment of the population unemployed and losing their homes, the system is broken. Very radical changes have to be made. And that's the beauty of our system. Those changes will come. It's built into our system. Heck we've had difference that have brought us all the way to a Civil War not all that long ago, yet we remain one of the most unified countries in the world. I don't know what's coming up, but we're watching the country in a period of evolution. We sometimes get ugly, but we always seem to wind up better in the end. The last time was the late 60's/early 70's and I think that most would agree that the 70's through the 90's were pretty freakin good. Time before that was after Korea and WW II, and before that was after the repeal of the 18th Amendment.
  14. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Wealth gap

    It is sad to see that simplicity is totally ignored in the political system.

    Why is it that going deeper and deeper into debt is the proper thing to do ???

    I don't care who did the most or first or whenever, why don't they just stop doing it ? It should be illegal except in times of National crisis.

    There are many ways to create a simple means of checks and balances to prevent the debt, ignore all that bs about special programs, special interest groups etc, if they want money, go to the people and ask directly , not right that a politician paid by the taxpayer is the collector and enforcer for interest groups or other programs.

    KISS principle is always the best.
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    We had a National crisis on 9/11/01. Trouble is people took advantage of it for personal and corporate gain. What was the figure? I think it was $700B a year for 10 years, going after the wrong country to boot, and we still don't have the memorial built.
    From your lips to the ears of every leader and legislator of every nation on earth.(BTW, what you described is a Democracy. We're a Republic.
  16. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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  17. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    Or, put another way which I believe is correct:

    Wages and benefits have slipped for the working man as our government and our governments debt have grown. The two are inversely proportional.

    I happen to agree that large corporations should have some more limits ... Could be done my taking away some tax loopholes from ONLY the large corporations. This would encourage small business competition. The problem is that U.S. large corporations and the U.S. Government are essentially ONE. They share influence, jobs and money back and forth.

    I also believe that unless we reduce the size of our government and entitlements by approx 1/3, then we are doomed.

    How about a new idea .... progressive tax structures for Corporations!!!!

    Where a million dollar profit would be taxed virtually nothing and the billion quarterly profit would be taxed heavily!!! That would encourage small business!
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    In the current Washington atmosphere any discussion of changes to the tax code are a waste of breath. It would become nothing more than fodder for campaign commercials with nothing getting accomplished.
    Under the sequesters that fell into place with the failure of the Super-Committee to reach agreement our countries spending, revenue and debt will be falling into line fairly fast (but painfully for some). After next year's elections corporate tax loopholes, etc. will either be getting closed or they'll be getting a lot more depending on the results. For now though there is not much that can be done (not much happens in election years). Right now the pressure will come from OWS. The rest will just be theater.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    This is utter BS. It is still very possible in the U.S. for a poor man to work hard, start a business, invent something, or what have you and become a millionaire. The opportunity is still there. Nobody said you had to work for a corporation in life. Especially with the boom of the internet. There are a lot of people with internet based businesses out of their home, that take hardly anymore money to open and run, then the inventory they're selling. The "why me" crowd will always cry "why me" no matter how good or bad things are. The "go getters" will always find a way to work hard and "go get" what they want.
  20. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    The "Go Getters" in this world are now faced with a pussy-whipped banking market that used to back a bright idea.

    They are scared to touch anything, least of all a new upstart.
    Try it with your own bank, they'll shove you right outta the door without so much of a goodbye.

    They got burned, now we all do.

    It's the 'Markets'.
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