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The Wealth Gap Widens...

Discussion in 'YachtForums Yacht Club' started by YachtForums, Nov 8, 2011.

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  1. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    The Ch. marine stuff is real el cheapo, the dimensions are not identical to US made and hooks, clips, etc, do not match up as well, plus, customer support on defective bilge switches is non existent to the point of denial. Unless an emergency, I refuse to support their products, unfortunately when it comes to everyday odds and ends, it can be difficult to asses where the stuff comes from, in Canada, if a product is imported in pieces, then assembled in Canada, it gains made in Canada labeling, bit of a rip.
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Actually it's a Whirlpool. How to give a good American name a garbage reputation. Make it in China. They'll sucker some of us once.
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Helped a guy recently change a deck hatch hinge on an Azimuth. Hinge made in China. After an hour of denial, skinned knuckles and almost crushed fingers, we got out the drill. Only way to make it fit. Not that I charged him, but how much do you figure he'd pay a yard to do a 5 minute job that ends up taking over an hour and results in your deck getting drilled because they don't put the post in the same place ? Worth the buck saved on the price of the hinge? I doubt it.
  4. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    The British Empire was the wealthiest nation in the world with the most powerful navy.
    Then they loaned the French money to help with WW1, and fought much of it with them, the loan was never re-paid.
    Then WW2 and the US loaned the British out of losing the war, plus sending enough troops and machinery etc. The loan WAS repaid.
    That was the END of British wealth.

    Now how many wars is the US fighting and WHO is paying for them???

    China or Indian economies are dependent on a market BUYING their product. They need the US to be healthy.
    IMHO it is in part, tied to long wars bleeding the economies white.
    Ironically, it was General Eisenhower, who warned the US would one day be subject to the military and how dangerous that was going to be.
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That presumes that China and India are thinking long term which they never have. They're more like 3 year olds who want every piece of candy in the bowl and they want it now. They have no concept of the bowl one day being empty if they keep taking from it. They don't think that far ahead. They want everything they can take from the U.S. and Europe. They want our economies ruined and our workers to forget what it's like to work with pride. They want us to be their peasant farmers. Period. They're not satisfied to climb up. They want to drag us down.
  6. Puddle Pirate

    Puddle Pirate Member

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    I always believed that the Chinees thought long term. Thats why they kept thier involvment in most wars to a minimum. They also just finished (not to long ago) building the worlds largest man made dam, thinking long term. Right now (thinking ahead) they are concerned with the problem (believe it or not) of a shortage of workers (in the near future) for thier factories due to the one child per familey law. You just never know, in a few years, it might be Americans and Mexicans going to China to look for jobs.

    The real powers to be are pushing for a one world socialist government. In order to make that happen, they have to level the playing field financially. So, they are bringing up the economies of the poorest (and largest populations) on the planet (China and India) while at the same time bankrupting the wealthiest on the planet (us and europe).
    Funny how GM has sold more cars in China over the last 8 yrs or so then they ever did here in the U.S. but yet they had to file bankruptsy and now the Gov. owns half of it. We hear that they are now doing great and that they have paid back their loans, but you don't hear any thing about the Gov. giving back thier half of the company. Socialism. Healthcare, Socialism. etc...

    Make no mistake, China is being controlled by the same hand full of people that controll our Gov. as well.
    Obama doesn't fart with out permission from these people, and niether would McCain had he become President. Their campains were both backed by the same people, just look up their campain doner lists. It's public info.

    Watch the movies I listed above, do your own research. We are living in the beginning of some very serious times to come.
  7. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Maybe the US gov. has gone underground ??



    General Motors Co GM
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    FundsInstitutions
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    American Funds Growth Fund of Amer A 20,880,234 1.33 -3,326,193 -13.74 0.36 09/30/2011
    American Funds Invmt Co of Amer A 20,409,900 1.30 2,100,000 11.47 0.85 09/30/2011
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    Vanguard Total Stock Mkt Idx 5,728,211 0.37 5,728,211 New 0.11 03/31/2011
    JPMorgan US Large Cap Core Plus A 6,349,950 0.41 928,480 17.13 2.06 09/30/2011
    T. Rowe Price Capital Appreciation 4,372,400 0.28 3,315,700 313.78 0.86 09/30/2011
    Invesco Van Kampen Comstock A 4,364,335 0.28 1,078,662 32.83 1.17 09/30/2011
    Vanguard Extended Market Idx Inv 4,158,267 0.27 -91,233 -2.15 0.53 09/30/2011
    BlackRock Global Allocation Inv B 2,990,400 0.19 39,400 1.34 0.16 07/31/2011
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    American Funds American Balanced A 4,000,000 0.26 4,000,000 New 0.18 09/30/2011
    Mutual Shares Z 3,903,130 0.25 534,170 15.86 0.62 09/30/2011
    Mutual Global Discovery Z 3,781,830 0.24 681,100 21.97 0.47 09/30/2011
    T. Rowe Price Value 3,700,000 0.24 280,000 8.19 0.70 09/30/2011
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    Sound Shore 2,016,900 0.13 460,200 29.56 3.11 06/30/2011
    Franklin Income A 2,694,090 0.17 71,617 2.73 0.10 09/30/2011
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    T. Rowe Price Equity
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Actually they've been quite the waring people throughout their history. You may have noticed a little wall they built. However they did not involve themselves in western wars for fear of being clobbered by modern forces and tried to stay isolated from the west for fear of having done to them what they are doing to the rest of the world right now.
    Actually they're playing catch-up with their energy demand as their other methods of generating power has made their air a bit unbreathable, another failure to look ahead. Also, since they were playing catch-up, they gave very little thought to the history they were drowning or the lives they were ruining or 1,000 year old ways of life that they were destroying in their quest for power.
    Actually, they have no shortage of workers. They have a shortage of workers willing to work for the salaries or working conditions they insist on, and no adequate housing for workers that they would be willing to live in. So no that is not forward thinking.
    That would be called selling yourself into slavery, something they would very much welcome.
    With that I totally agree.
  9. Puddle Pirate

    Puddle Pirate Member

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    Alright, your talking about a wall built what 800 yrs or so ago. I was refering to the last 200 to 300 years. And back then, they could have walked right through us if they had wanted to.
    And your right they are playing catch up (thinking long term). And doing a ****ed good job of it. Thier economy is booming while ours is going in the tank. Dams are LONG term inexpensive clean energy. We have built many dams that have flooded out sacred Indian lands and history as well. And even in a city as clean as Minneapolis they have an air polution index that is reported on every day, and some days they actually put out warnings on it. Now try L.A., New York City, or Detroit.
    Watching the Chinees news channel 2 days ago, they said that by 2015 they may begin to have a shortage of skilled workers for thier factories because of the one child per family and thier aging population.
    So are the Mexicans selling them selves into slavery by comming here?
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    The China you're referring to is a lot less than 200 to 300 years old. More like 60 and they've been trying to accumulate a military advantage since day one. The only thing that has kept them from attacking the U.S. militarily is fear. So now they're doing it economically.
    We are paying dearly for the mistakes of our past. However we charted uncharted territory with nobody to lead (a lousy but legitimate excuse), and have been trying not to repeat our mistakes. The Chinese see the mistakes others made and plow ahead with profit the only goal, and everything else such as human rights, honesty, fairness, quality and integrity not so important. As for the unbiased and uncensored Chinese news. Yeah.
    And yes the Mexicans are selling themselves into slavery. Have you seen the jobs they take, the hours they work and the pay they receive and how they live? Here on Long Island several small 3 bedroom/ 1 bath homes were found to be housing over 60 people. But at least they do it with the hope of attaining the American dream and they're coming from a place far worse. But yes we have scum here more than willing to exploit the vulnerable also, just not government sanctioned. We also (for the moment) treat our lowliest workers better than most nations, giving them access to education, healthcare, etc. Anybody think China is going to offer that to Americans? And BTW, what are "skilled" factory workers? The Chinese think "skilled" means fast, cheap and willing to work with toxins. How exactly does a country who has to enact a one child rule to keep their population in check come up short on workers? They're trying to import what expertise they can't otherwise steal. They consider their own people expendable.
  11. Puddle Pirate

    Puddle Pirate Member

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    China has'nt attacked any other countries (militarialy) iether in the last 60 years. But we have for economic gain.
    Do you really believe that our media is unbiased and uncensored?
    Here in Williston, ND. we have Alot of Mexicans working here and they are making good money. Alot of Americans have left their families to come here to work and they are living in Very crampt quarters, many living in thier cars. The oil boom here has become a bit of an economic oasis in the country.
    I personally know quite a few people that have moved to Mexico, not just for the lower price of living (Panama, and the Philipines is Much less expensive), but because it is just a great place to live. Some areas are not as nice as others, just as it is here in the U.S.
    Don't get me wrong, I love my country (though also the rest of the planet). I believe that a person is a bigger patriot for questioning his government than one who just runs to the polling booth.
    The things that we have been discusing are just a Part of what is really going on. PLEASE watch the The Zeitgeist Film Series Gateway | Zeitgeist: The Movie, Zeitgeist: Addendum, Zeitgeist Moving Forward and do some serious research on this stuff, and Then lets have a serious discussion on it.
  12. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    That might come as a surprise to India, Tibet, more than a few Vietnam vets, some Burmese, Taiwanese, and the Russians.
  13. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    "I always believed that the Chinees thought long term."


    Chou En-Lai, when asked by Henry Kissinger what he thought about the French Revolution of 1789, responded,

    "Too soon to tell."
  14. Puddle Pirate

    Puddle Pirate Member

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    Marmot, I stand corrected.
    Loren, what does the Chinese thinking about thier own long term future have to do with the French Revolution?

    People, please watch these movies and then lets talk about the much larger picture, "The world wide monetary system".

    I guess the point that I was trying to make about the Chinese is that, they are no more evil than any of the rest of the countries. China has it's good areas and bad like most other countries. Also good times and bad like most other countries.
    Look at us during the Great Depresion. Our Government torched ware houses of grain (trying to boost the farming market) while over 6 million americans starved to death.
  15. airship

    airship Senior Member

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    Kafue wrote:
    I have not yet verified Kafue's account of paid / unpaid loans to either France from UK or UK from USA etc. However, I do recall reading about how the UK, mere 5-6 years ago, were reported in the media as "finally in the process of paying back all the remaining WWII loans from USA". The explanation from the UK government at the time (dating from 2005/6) as reported by the media, was that the interest rates charged on these loans was "so low" that it made economic sense not to pay off these loans before they were overdue, the government preferring to pay off more higher-interest loans first...?! Not the most honourable solution IMHO, but we're talking about government "bean-counters" that manage these things nowadays and who never experienced wartimes.

    Which brings me to the situation today, where "the markets" continue to impose punitive (even extortionate) rates of interest on new governmental debt issued by Portugal, Spain, Greece and even France and Italy most recently. Forgive me for my ignorance, but if you or I were ever to lend important sums "on a personal basis to someone", we know pretty much whether or not we're ever going to be paid back right from the start...?! :confused: And whatever notional interest rates we might apply (say under 2% as "the market" currently lends to Germany, or >7% as "the market" currently offers to Italy for example), the over-riding factor is whether or not the loan is repaid at the end of the day.

    So there appears to be little justification in "the market" today imposing such interest rate discrepancies of <2% for loans to Germany, twice that for loans to France and >7% for loans to Italy. If "the market" really believes that they risk taking "a hit" on their loans to Italy, France, Spain, Portugal etc. on the same basis as their previous loans to Greece (50% writedown), then they shouldn't be making any new loans whatsoever to Italy, France, Spain, Portugal etc. surely? I mean, what's the point of charging 7% interest rates if you really believe you're going to have to writedown 50% or more of the loan the day after tomorrow?

    I think you might conclude as I've done, that "the market", so far as Eurozone countries and their debts are concerned, is being severely manipulated. I still believe that USA and UK under their "national interests" would welcome the demise of the Euro currency. Whether or not these countries have anything to do with the way "the market" for Eurozone government debts operates today is open for debate. But it all stinks...

    PS. For what it's worth, read this BBC report about how a US "vulture fund" has been pursuing the government of Congo for a "paper debt" it bought for US$ 3 million or thereabouts from a previous creditor, but worth US$ 100 millions if the courts agree finally. Talk about the wealth-gap widening...?! Most recently, all I see are governments (1st World) clamouring to rescue privately-owned banks, other financial institutions and even a few Detroit-based car companies using tax-payer funds and future obligations, which mostly profit the private share-holders of these companies. How do you think a Congo citizen should react when reading that some US "vulture fund" which bought up the debt of the Congo government from another institution that had basically "wriiten-off" that debt for US$ 3 million and now want the original US$ 100 millions to be repaid...?! A country like the Congo, extremely poor, having endured several civil wars over the past few decades, ruled by a long-line of dictators etc. being forced to pay off? I imagine that all the US "vulture fund" has to do now is to" pay off" some official in the current Congo government, a sum to be negotiated of anywhere between the US$ 3 million they invested and the US$ 100 million return. That way, the "wealth-gap" widenning can be explained simply as an "International phenomenom", just like free global trade and not just limited to the USA?
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The problem is, that most Americans buy the cheapest item, and want the cheapest price, and don't care how well it is made anymore, or where and in what conditions it's made in. Most Chinese plants don't give a crap about how much they're polluting their air or water or even the products they're producing and how they effect other people, as long as they make a dollar. Until Americans care about what they're spending their money on, and where and how it is made, it will not change.
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I get the feeling that the time has come for a lot of people, and change may be on the horizon. I'm sure aware of how much cheap imitations cost me in the long run, and I think many others are starting to realize it also. Just the other day my wife was discussing her shellfish allergy with a doctor. The doctor told her it probably isn't a shellfish allergy at all. Evidently much of the shell fish is brought in from China and Japan. They spray it with chemicals to keep it "fresh" and those chemicals are causing a reaction in a lot of people. The doctor was saying there's been a huge spike in "shellfish" allergies. My wife really loves shrimp and is none too happy she can't eat it any more.
  18. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    Forest Gump might suggest this link:

    Fresh Gulf Shrimp | Available from CajunGrocer.com
  19. 61c40

    61c40 Member

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    I don't believe that most americans want the cheapest item at the cheapest price, they want purchases that have value. I bought a Amana furnace five years ago for $ 4800.00 to replace a 25year old Sears furnance that still worked right but was'nt as efficent as the new one The Amana is made in the US with parts from around the globe. A vacuam switch that costs $2.50 to make in Costa Rica retails for $42.50 and the furnace guy wants $130.00 to install it
  20. cowboyznindian

    cowboyznindian New Member

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    shoulder your share

    Although I believe in loyalty, I strongly oppose stupidity. Many people whom are financially underwater right now are there because of their own doing. They had to refinance to the hilt after they payed way too much to begin with so they could have the biggest house and the best toys, for awhile...I'm not wealthy by any means...I've been out of work since 1/28/11 and have not missed a house payment on the home in which I live nor the vacation home I own in Tahoe or the moorage slip for my 32' chriscraft Roamer...I'm not a genius by any means but I certainly know that a booming market will not last forever...Shame on the people whom have played the blame game and not taken responsibility for his own actions...I understand that not everyone fits this bill but there are a lot of people that want the bail out for their own irresponsible actions...If we want this situation to get better, then we need to shoulder the share of responsibility that we own...a business is a business...The owners are in it to make money...As a worker, the only thing you can do is your best to make that business succeed...That's not just loyalty, that's American pride...
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