Click for Delta Click for Mag Bay Click for Mulder Click for Burger Click for Westport

The real difference in sea worthiness of motor yachts

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Jake Straw, Feb 28, 2021.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Jake Straw

    Jake Straw New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2021
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Georgia
    I’m definitely not looking at new. Checking out boats in the ‘13-17’ range
  2. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    The projected curve (based on others built) is actually much like our Riva's. At idle, .52 nmpg, then .38, .33, .21, .19, .16, .15, .14. That is with all engines engaged. From 45 to 54 knots, very little difference as those last three numbers represent. Sea Trials not too far away. Then shakedown cruise after. Just don't know if we'll then be able to cruise in Europe this year.
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Yes, 2 little Jabsco Parmax 4 pumps in series. Pressure switches would go bad on them and they'd build up enough pressure to launch a rocket too.....combined with crappy relays........Changed several of them on the same Prestige......

    The bulkheads are glued with some epoxy putty........the interior woodwork is simply glued together with a liquid nails type substance. I've had some scary moments in a 50' Prestige and 2-4' off of the stern quarter and it was verrrrrrryyyy interesting, but had another experience in that boat, taking spray over the flybridge but not too terribly rough, but started getting pretty unstable......checked the flybridge and it's a 10-12" step down and it was absolutely full to the brim with sea water because Prestige only put 2 drains in the front of it..........
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,120
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    acutlly the 500 was about a million 3 years ago when a friend of mine bought one new. Decent boat... nice layout indeed but strictly coastal and pick your day to go to the Bahamas

    I agree that the most important skill is to make the go - no go decision. That said anyone who’s had their boat long enough ended up at least one time in conditions worst than they expected. It s on these days that you want a boat which doesn’t make your wife call 1 800 divorce. And the title of this thread is seaworthiness...

    ... and you can be sure many buyers don’t know the construction and seaworthiness differences between a prestige, Hatteras or ... whatever other brand.
    hat4349 likes this.
  5. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,111
    Location:
    Sardinia
    Aha, 3/4M did sound low for a new boat.
    Well, "low" relatively speaking, of course... :)
  6. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,111
    Location:
    Sardinia
    Yeah, I can imagine.
    The pandemic situation is still rather hit and miss at the moment, with occasional improvements followed by some new hotspots/variants, often out of the blue. The regional classification (white/yellow/orange/red, intuitively with increasing restrictions, based on updated statistics) is currently reviewed on a weekly basis, and Tuscany is currently orange, but how it will look like in a few months is pretty much anyone's guess.
    Impossible to add anything at the moment, aside from wishing you (and the builder, of course!) good luck.
  7. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,111
    Location:
    Sardinia
    Well, that is indeed crappy stuff, I must admit.
    No big deal to replace the Jabsco chinese stuff with a proper Gianneschi pump and forget about it for the next 40 years, anyhow...
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Yeah but then all of the PEX plumbing is mostly unsupported so when running in say a 2-3' sea, one of the fittings somewhere in the bilge will start spraying and before you know it, the water tanks are empty. I've had this happen on several of them on deliveries. A pain if you're running somewhere to anchor for the night and then realize you have no freshwater.......or in the Bahamas where you're paying $0.40-50 a gallon for fresh water.
  9. hat4349

    hat4349 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    249
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    I've been there with copper plumbing put in by a previous owner and not supported. The fitting at the hot water heater broke and we had a mess plus needed a new hot water heater. If I was looking at a new boat and saw the PEX wasn't supported I'd leave right away.
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Any tubing or wiring must be adequately supported but it's an area where many manufacturers see a chance to cheap out without being noticed until something goes wrong. At least PEX has some flex to it where with copper you're dealing with soldered joints.
  11. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    733
    Location:
    OR/CA
    I guess if a builder does not support water PEX piping properly we could assume they are doing this to save money, as in labor mostly, right?
    I am not a penny pincher by nature, not saying that is ideal, but do we think that builders don't support the PEX (as a good example for this discussion) because they don't know how to do it properly instead? Na.

    Does the builder sit down and say, "well we could support this PEX tubing with hangers or tie downs everywhere, or we could save $300 in parts and big money on labor hours and get this boat out the door and no one will know".

    I fear it is the buyer beware and buyers don't know what they don't know. How do I know that? I was a very green buyer for my first boat or two. Not saying I was robbed but I did not know PEX tubing should be hung/supported every X inches.
  12. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    "save $300"? Many in business try to save a half cent. I had a friend who owned a mail box company and he got all excited about a 1/4 cent saving.o_O When I'd look over boat for potential buyers things like this are what would catch my attention knowing that if the manufacturer cheeped in the little things look out for the big ones you can't see.
  13. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,905
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    I got PEX on my boat, no problems so far, but had no idea about support requirements, or that a builder would cut corners on basics just to save a few shekels, and in the long run, screw the owner(s).
    (Would not buy a boat with a bad build reputation in the first place, but many do)
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I was told that Prestige builds a yacht from start to finish in 4-6 weeks. Now think about that.
  15. Jake Straw

    Jake Straw New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2021
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Georgia
    Here’s a few I’m planning on checking out when I go down to Miami, thoughts?

    2013 Azimut 54 flybridge

    2011 sunseeker Manhattan 52

    2014 princess 56 flybridge

    2010 McKenna sport yacht 62

    2012 pearl 60 flybridge
  16. KoffeeCruising

    KoffeeCruising Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Fl
    Jake

    Good advice on this thread; you can only learn by cruising/spending time aboard ...and then realize what you missed because you you “didn’t know what you didn’t know”. Look at all those , but don’t be afraid of getting something older if we’ll maintained.

    I’m a similar story; long term Midwestern -drove wakeboard boat and 3 years ago I bought a 2007 (1,000 hour) Pama54’ Flybridge M/Y that had right bones and layout, but not everything I wanted. But I’ve improved it each year and have learned what is liveable for my needs and the “Admirals” needs.
    First I converted the office into a bunkroom. Functional and it’s great for sleep, but no one is going to hang out in it. I added a water maker for Bahamas, a really functional bimini, had the crane motor overhauled. I installed a Yacht Controller which is a marriage Saver, and the best upgrade/- over COVID I had a Anti Roll Gyro stabilizer installed —I’m about to do a post on this/- and it’s a game changer. Awesome. I’ve done all these things slowly over the last 3 years because now I sort of maybe know more what I need.

    other things I really like is our onboard washer and drier: we do simple loads every day and dry the towels. I love my functional crane/davit that I can put my tender up and down. We make one of the chocks removeable so we have a great lounge sundeck at anchor. I was puzzled why my freezer was so big, and now I know. You generally transfer frozen to the fridge.

    I too had grandiose plans on big cruises- now I find simple is better than complex. we really like the ICW, Anchoring out in Biscayne Bay, doing the mini Florida loop to Keys, up to Naples, Ft Myers and over the Okochobee Waterway. These are simple trips you and your guests will love that are pretty weather friendly, provisioning friendly and accessible. This year my plans are to go up to Long Island Sound /Nantucket. And maybe the loop some year since I can get under the 19,2” bridge in chicago.

    I love the Bahamas and can get there.. my most favorite trip was to the Abacos before Dorian. Plan in Exumas next....but the complexity of window weathers to cross the Gulf Stream —OR CROSS BACK- are hard to schedule. Growing up in Missouri there is still a little trepidation about open water crossings. Now when we go I take the boat over with my old Captain and we get boat to Nassau and my wife and our guests fly in.

    I love the fact I can cruise @ 18kts @ .54Nmpg to cross but can do 7kts at almost 1.75Nmpg.

    Last; yes you need, and will want, a Captain and someone who manages the ongoing care and feeding. This is your best $$ spent . Driving a boat isn’t hard: docking a boat in cross winds and currents surrounded by Millions of dollars of other yachts is the most stressful part of your day. But you have to do it to learn it. I now have 350 hours on this boat, and consider myself functional, but any open water crossing I have him come along. It was 7 months before I took my first trip up the ICW without him.

    I now have a 3 stateroom, stabilized, functional, comfortable and maintainable vessel that is better than what I started with. I’m writing this from the flybridge over morning coffee @ Sunset Harbor, heading up to Bahia Mar today— yesterday anchored out off Key Biscayne, and it’s a good life.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  17. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Clearly not the roughing it type and several things you mentioned that are really worth emphasis.

    First the word "livable". If you like to cruise then it's a home to you and some of the conveniences of home are critical. The following things you mentioned cease being optional and become necessities.
    -Water Maker
    -On board laundry equipment
    -Freezer capacity
    -Stabilization
    -Easy up and down with tender
    -Yacht controller

    Boating is leisure, recreational, vacationing. Now if one just loves working on their boat, even more than boating then doing it all oneself is fine, but most of us want to enjoy boating, not working on boats. That's where you're appreciative of what your captain does for you. That's where yacht managers and captains prove themselves. You can then work as little or as much as you wish. That's also where you know when you're ready to cruise the boat will be. It's amazing the problems that develop on a boat not in use, but nice to have someone else discover them and contact you and arrange to have them fixed if not something they do themselves.
    DJ Catalyst likes this.
  18. Jake Straw

    Jake Straw New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2021
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Georgia
    You’re my hero! At the end of the day all I’m after is to be on the water and comfortable
    DJ Catalyst likes this.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Olderboater hit on a lot of good key points. But I'd also add shower size, toilet size and comfort to the list.
  20. Rocman

    Rocman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    NY
    Jake, for what you are describing in a MY i would look at the 52 Princess FB. Quality yacht and you can probably pick one up in that price range. I looked at this in a 2017 and was impressed. I didnt go with a Flybridge because of the same reason you said about driving the boat alone. We cruise a lot and the predator with the drop down transom glass is virtually an open boat when needed. I think the Prestige is a price point well below the euro boats. They are great designs but my marina tells me they arent built with quality components. Not sure if you would consider an older fly bridge Searay. 52 or 58 sedan bridges made up until 2012 are the best they ever made. And you will save at least 400k. Stick with Conventional drives if you can. If pods I would not touch a Zeus Boat, only VOLVO IPS.