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The Non Evolution of the Sport Fisher

Discussion in 'General Sportfish Discussion' started by Kafue, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    - Why do have SF yachts no front windows in their main salon ?
    Because SF are designed for rough seas and due to the speed and such the front windows would tend to leak on most SF because the FB support would be weakened by the windows there. And Also, that area is used for the Galley cabinets and storage behind them (attic) on Most SF so it doesn't obstruct your view out of the sides and rear from the salon.

    - Why is there no lower helmstation in the salon on open bridge SF boats ?

    Because of the above mentioned, also it would take a lot of interior space, and strataglass and ez2cy enclosures have become weatherproof enough that it's no longer wanted by most all buyers

    - On most SF, some or most cabins seem to have no windows or hatches at all ???
    Rough seas and leakage caused many to do away with portholes in the hullside and astetics. Some or most have hatches, again a lot of it is astetics and saltwater leakage. SF are designed to be fished in the sloppy stuff. Just ask all of the Aussie's that we have on here.

    - Is it comfortable or even advisable on a planning SF hull, to have beds on a 45 degree angle in relation to the longitudinal axis (movement of the boat, when on the hook) ?
    Probably not very comfortable and due to room layout and space layout it's usually just not done.

    - Is a gyro stabilisation system usefull on a SF boat (maybe not during fishing) ? SF are inherently more stable than their MY brothers at rest (most of them) due to the nature of the design. There are a few that have them, but the system is also very heavy.

    - Is a larger SF (a 82 ft for example) used in the same way than a 45 or 50 ft, when fishing (trolling, backtracking and rampaging around) or are they better used for whale hunting :)?
    Yes, used in the same way.
    - How fast can those SF boats go backwards, without turning the fishing cockpit into a swimmingpool (calm waters) ?
    This greatly depends on hull design and shaft angle.....But usually 10-12 knots without flooding the cockpit.

    - Which custom US SF builder(s) is (are) concidered the "Rolls Royce" among the SF community ?
    It usually depends on the size you're looking for, each builder has a 10' size range they're more geared for and do best in. Some are more geared for speed over ride, some ride over speed. Some drivers would have a Ferrari but never a Lambo, others would rather have a Dodge Viper over both because they're too tall to fit into either a Ferrari or Lambo. Bayliss, Jim Smith, Merritt, ACY, Spencer, and a few others.......my preference is Jim Smith....I like the Florida boat handling over the Carolina boat handling. And one of the above mentioned are famous for being wet and pounding, however handle extremely well on the troll and their finish quality is definately Rolls Royce. Most all in the SF world know who that is.

    The customs boats generally are not only faster than their production brothers, but they're also considerably more fuel efficient and ride better along with having more attention to detail inside and out.
  2. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Look at the global supercar market - does anyone really need a 200+ mph vehicle? What percentage of use do they actually run at 200+ mph? But it sure looks **** good pulling up at your favorite $$$ watering hole in one!

    That being said, you'll never get the chance to experience 200+mph unless you pay for the power package up front.

    I totally agree that when the going gets rough, a low 20 - 24 knot cruise hits a sweet spot - I think when you factor in wave periods and boat speed, the encounter of waves at the low 20 - 24 knots is compatible with most peoples biological "natural frequency", translating into a perception of comfort and less fatigue.

    Just a theory of mine, but I have tried it myself, just throttle down when it is really rough and I bet you will find that about 22 knots (+/- 2) it feels pretty comfortable ;)
  3. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    As modern diesels evolved and SFer's had access to better power density, the speeds surpassed the builders structural knowledge at the time and there were several blow-outs of front windshields. (Even on the Great Lakes, circa late 80's). Also, since a good percentage of SF are crewed, with the owners sleeping off the boat, the owners did not mind losing the view and gaining some additional storage

    Lack of visibility fore/aft, takes away too much interior space. Development of better materials for bridge enclosures like Strataglass, EZ2CY, etc.

    Every hatch/porthole has the potential to leak. See my first comment about the advent speed/structure and owners that don't stay onboard. There was a rash of leaks in the 80's - 90's. Plus AC has greatly improved over the years.

    It gets tried all the time, not particularly popular. May be ok in a marina or underway at lower speeds. Many owners don't sleep onboard anyways.

    Absolutely!

    Yes, and yes again if your reference to "whale hunting" is for large tuna and marlin.

    Will vary on the design and captain, some as low as 6 -7 knots, rare for others to get over 10 knots in actual (real, non swimming pool) conditions, and a limited few specialized designs can do 12+ knots (G&S)

    Is Rolls-Royce really the benchmark any more? Like high performance cars, Porsche/Aston Martin/Jag/BMW/Mercedes/Ferrari/Lambo and the specialized car builders like Bugatti, etc., each SF has its own attributes that make it stand-out. Fit and finish can be argued forever, as can ride quality, etc.

    Everyone seems to have a favorite, some influenced by their geographical location, some by their childhood boating experiences, but the good news is that there are better high quality SF'ers today than ever.

    My personal favorite was the 56' Whiticar "Picasso". I would say you could flip a coin amongst 3 - 5 builders for benchmarks in regards to fit/finish/ride/handling much like you could for the supercar world. :)
  4. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

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  5. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    It will start to resemble a block of flats. Plus she will start leaning over in the big swell. Maybe at 90-100'+.

    Far
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The tuna tower is a lot lighter than a FB up there would be. Also, I've seen several large SF in the 80+' range and they don't look that great to me.
  7. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    I agreed with Capt J, hard top with outriggers is the way a Sportfish looks nice in my book.

    The sportfish is a slow evolving boat, actually newer models do look more classic see Viking and Hatteras both with full flash fore deck,,,,

    The Sportfish is something which will always evolve slowly; may be the most accepted evolution was the mezzanine settee aft.

    Midships view windows are still not so much tolerated by the core, and forward windshield reintroduced by Bertram Ferretti for the new 540 shared the same faith....
    Yes we saw some custom builders also having some boats ordered this way but those are less then a handful

    As for pods, and IPS, I think sportfisherman like it simple and pods are not that simple if a problem comes. Still some builders especially in the smaller size are offering this and seeing some interests.
  8. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    The K.I.S.S. nature of the straight engine - trans - shaft - wheel is the easiest for someone like me to trouble shoot and do minor maintenance and repairs myself and that is key for me too.

    The pods, IPS etc facinate me but I don't see me making a change unless I have the money to pay someone else to do the upkeep and repairs.
  9. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Ranger - 129'. I'm still a little surprised American's haven't gone bigger with there S/F's. Imagine running your clients out via heli to a mothership for the day/weekend for a spot of fishing. :D

    Far

    Attached Files:

  10. Patudo

    Patudo New Member

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    When you get into that sort of size a mothership/sportfisher operation becomes very compelling. Big comfortable vessel to live on and a smaller vessel optimized for sportfishing to actually fish on.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  11. Patudo

    Patudo New Member

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    It depends on the type of fishing you are intending to do. For light tackle billfishing where the fish are fast and incredibly agile and unpredictable in their movement, a vessel capable of spinning quickly, backing up quickly and going from reverse to forward and back again, in the hands of a capable captain is a joy to fish from. Instead of working around the limitations of the vessel the vessel is working you have the ability to react to every movement of the fish. A jeep will get you around a racetrack just like you can catch a sailfish or marlin from a Grand Banks (and plenty have), but catching one (or two or more in a day) on a really capable sportfish is like going around a racetrack in a Ferrari.
  12. Liberty

    Liberty Senior Member

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    All true.

    In addition, having a huge flat windscreen out the front allows a huge amount of solar radiation into the saloon.

    We had that problem on the last boat, and the a/c completely failed to keep the saloon cool.

    Looks pretty at boat shows, but very uncomfortable to live with.
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    You have an idea how much water a wave includes in hundreds of gallons times 8 for weight. Big bow sport fishers still punch thru (stuff) sometimes.
    Then all the reasons posted below.
    Years ago I was on a high free-board Bertram that went thru a wave at Ft Peirce inlet, ripped the RIB, davit and stands rite off the deck (didn't like that junk up there anyway).
  14. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Patudo, any S/F boat of Ranger's size that has been built, has been built in Alloy, and resembles something else other than a S/F. The idea with Ranger was to resemble a S/F, and have the performance of a S/F (size considered), and also have qualities of a mothership. Personally, I'd buy the boat purely on merrit on how the boat looks, like mosts S/F. I love the way S/F's look and perform, but how unpractical the boats are becoming to make sure they bring in the fish... well there's no surprise the market is fairing off to put it lightly.

    I can go out and buy a M3 or AMG - get the same if not more thrills then a Ferrari on the track and then drive home in comfort, pick up the kids and shopping and put the golf clubs in the back...

    Far
  15. Liberty

    Liberty Senior Member

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    Far,

    Don't want to argumentative, but I can assure you that an M3 or AMG isn't wildly comparative with an Fcar. Had an AMG E63, regretted it. Fcar has unlimited grin value.

    The kids fight to get to ride to school and no probs with shopping.

    And they come with instructions on how to load golf clubs (if that's your thing).

    Just saying.

    :D

    Liberty

    PS and ... That's my 100th post.
  16. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Lol!, funny post Liberty, by the way your latest car shares the same V8 as the Fcar ;). The point was, that there's boats out there that can do the same things - your boats a perfect example, same with Kafue. Coming back from Hamilton Is in the Whistler (100') last year we got a few lines wet above Frazer Is, it has a throttle station above the cockpit... it seemed fine to me when I was fighting something big... my fault for losing the **** fish :rolleyes:.

    Far!

    Happy 100 Posts
  17. Liberty

    Liberty Senior Member

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    Whistler is an iconic boat. Would loved to have done that run.

    And Far ... kept the engine, upgraded the rest.

    :D
  18. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Unless it was a 58 SF/MY like yours, I wouldn't really consider older Bertram's a high freeboard SF. They always seemed a lot lower than the rest for that time period.....
  19. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    At that time, I thought it was a high freeboard hull (still do). The point was (is?), allot of water on the deck rushing to the saloon. No window; embarrassment yes, Stuffing the ocean fun, deck house dry, equipment overboard (not mine).
    That would be a good example of why better SFs don't have forward windows.
    I had an old Pequod 34. Had forward windows. Bless their hearts, did not blow in one night (angles were on the ride), but fixed my finxter of forward windows. Boat sold shortly after (miss that boat).
  20. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    We have had both windows and no windows forward on numerous under 50' SF, and I think it really comes done to how aggressive you want to run.

    In our 44' Pacifica, it had a bait tank and dinghy on the bow, and glass windows forward. Great view, made the salon really nice in the less humid climate out West. It also made two trips to Socorro Island on its own by a previous owner, which probably has not been done by any other 44' SF. It had sufficient freeboard forward (about 7') and even though I had buried the bow a few times with 1 or 2 feet of solid green water on the deck, it never was an issue by the time it dispersed to the deckhouse.

    But all that happed at speeds less than 15 knots, as they were typical events on long passages to the "right" fishing spots.

    One trick to eliminate the greenhouse effect of lots of salon windows was the use of a gray mesh material for exterior window covers, you could see out of it and it let plenty of soft light in. Left those on most of the time while underway, removed them at anchor or at the dock.

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