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The Next America's Cup in Multihulls

Discussion in 'General Sailing Discussion' started by brian eiland, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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  2. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Contary Viewpoint

    * From Alan Veenstra, Chicago:
    I view the Golden Gate Yacht Club (GGYC) selection of catamarans for AC
    competition as nothing more than a continued mockery of the world's oldest
    sporting event. While the technology associated with catamarans was vital in
    rescuing the AC from Ernesto, must we continue down a path that limits
    competition to billionaires from a handful of technologically advanced
    countries? Must we cheapen the image of our sport in order to attract an
    audience better suited to the momentary shallowness of the latest reality
    show? Catamarans are marvelous, but such large platforms are more akin to
    drag racing than to yacht racing.

    Technology is a marvelous benefit of AC competition, but now it seems to be
    the only one. Not only is it prohibitively expensive (thereby limiting
    competition), it diminishes the role of sailors and tactics in the joy of
    competition. If allowed to continue we can dispense with the sailors all
    together. Radio-control boats anyone? How about computer simulation by
    Pixar? Instead of starting lines, will we see AC boats revving their winged
    masts as vertical lights countdown from red to green? And to attract an even
    larger audience, perhaps we can rename the event to 'AC: Smack Down on the
    Bay'.

    I suggest that GGYC designate an AC vessel between 50'-80' that conforms to an
    international rating rule for offshore yachts. Not only would this
    encourage a broad field of international competitors, the afterlife of such
    boats would bolster offshore fleets worldwide. And more important, we would
    put real sailors and tactics back into the world's oldest competition.
  3. Kevin

    Kevin YF Moderator

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    And when the Flintstones die off who'll be watching sailing then? The Facebookers who were never into it in the first place? People need to grow up a little and stop whining.
  4. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Good point Kevin
  5. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Kevin, I'm not whining, I believe the Facebook term is '*****ing' :D .

    Brian, It's a nice little class, and looks pretty fun too. Back in my day I sailed Sabots, which was a fantastic class. You really had to look after the boat, which was a great lesson in life I think.

    What other A/C news do you have Brian...? :rolleyes:

    Far
  6. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Attracting a Larger Audience and thus more Sponsorship Monies

    ...from a recent Scuttlebutt

    * From Katrina Johnson:
    Thank you Noel Sterrett for showing just how perfect multihulls are. I showed his two video links (in Scuttlebutt 3190) to 14 non-sailing friends. I asked them two questions: Which looked most exciting and which event would you like to go to?

    They all said that the cats were exciting, the monos looked like nothing and they wanted to go the cat event!

    The AC is an event at one end of the sport. It has always been for rich people. If you can't afford it don't play, if you want a level playing field go race one designs and if you are a professional sailor, shut up and just get on with the job you are employed to do. Slagging off multihull sailors is not clever and shows ignorance and to the outside observer does nothing but damage to the sport!

    Curmudgeon's Comment: I think Katrina has nailed it. The opinion of sailing enthusiasts is perhaps not the primary opinion, as this group will ultimately become sufficiently interested because it is their sport. The plan for the 34th America’s Cup is to grab the attention of the significantly larger, non-sailing population. The goal of this event is commercial viability, which requires a large viewership to warrant commercial support and media attention. This event will resemble nothing we have seen before. With boat speed of 40+ knots, how can it (not)? I inserted the word 'not' believing it was left out. Brian
  7. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    "The opinion of sailing enthusiasts is perhaps not the primary opinion" Great To Know

    "if you want a level playing field go race one designs" Isn't that the whole idea, so it comes down to tacktics, and the sailors abilities.

    "They all said that the cats were exciting, the monos looked like nothing and they wanted to go the cat event!" That's because they didn't have a clue whats going on.

    So let me get this right, the pinnacle of sailing is in a lower skilled required boat, where the only way you and your crew can win, is with the most amount of money....

    Should be a great series. Lets confuse the novice even more.

    While there at it, they might want to put NASCARS at the top because it's more entertaining....

    Far
  8. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Brian,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ImfzS5PXGE

    That's awesome! The racing just needs to be the right formula to be entertaining.

    Katrina Johnson, I really hope your reading this, but your comments were very poor to say the least. Shows a very poor understanding for the sport and where/how it needs to head.

    Far
  9. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    That is exciting racing, but how often do you get those conditions for an Americas Cup
  10. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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  11. Kevin

    Kevin YF Moderator

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    With Team Origin pulling out last week, and United Internet Team germany this week... the 34th Cup is slowly dwindling. I think they didn't leave enough of a time-frame for the teams to work with. They were caught between a rock and a hard place... hurry up and get the Cup back on track, or delay the whole thing even more. Neither solution was going to work well for everyone.
  12. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    In Perth, Australia, they have the Fremantle Doctor... Wind that comes at around 12... you can write it down in the diary it's that on time. I've had a few regattas over there... very beautiful place.

    NZ is known for it's heavy winds, how many older AC boats has it broken. :D

    San Francisco is also known for it's winds.

    They need to choose areas based on the winds more so then having a nice looking place.

    Far
  13. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Will the cup be held every 3 years like normal....? I believe if this is so, the "non-sailing" people will loose track of whats happening, and loose interest in the sport....?

    Also, what are they calling the smaller class of cats....?

    Far
  14. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Match Racing in Monohulls or Multihulls – Have your say!!

    Controversy has always surrounded the America's Cup, and the 34th edition is no different.

    Before entries have even opened, the sailing world is divided as to whether the introduction of a 72ft long catamaran is the right option to revive the event.

    Or, should this match racing event continue in monohulls, - the match racing boat type that most teams and fans know best?

    Since BMW Oracle Racing won the 33rd America’s Cup in February of this year, the foundations and structure of the event and its match racing origins have been examined as never before.

    The potential teams have been told they would be consulted, some say they were not. The multihull choice came as a big shock to some who had been expecting the monohull option.

    Now Sail-World gives everyone in the sailing community, both match racers and other sailors, the chance to have your say (or, rather, vote) as we conduct a survey to find out the 'People’s Choice'

    Complete the quick survey Here and go into the draw to win one of six Musto fleeces

    ...courtesy of SAIL-World.com
  15. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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  16. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    My 'glass Half Full' Outlook

    MY 'GLASS HALF FULL' OUTLOOK
    By Craig Leweck, Scuttlebutt editor

    There is a large segment of the sailing community that is frustrated right now with the America's Cup. And I don't blame them either. It was so good in 2007. The venue and design evolution had made the winner hard to predict. For sport to be entertainment, we don't want to know the plot, we don't want to know the ending. We want to meet the characters, and join them along for an unscripted ride. And we had that.

    Now that the event has drastically changed, we are unsure of what lies ahead. To have close racing again in the first cycle of a new format seems optimistic. But I am an optimist. Here are my hopes:

    - The 34th Match will be in San Francisco, which will provide stunning visuals and high wind excitement.
    - The tides in the Bay, which dictate the favored side of the course, will keep the boats close to each other.
    - That differences in wind speed will have a dramatic effect on boat speed, which will make it hard to protect a lead.
    - That less maneuverability will make it hard to protect a lead.
    - That huge upgrades in video production will make it all riveting to watch.

    Of course, my biggest hope was that the 34th America's Cup would have had a nationality clause for its sailing crew, but that didn't happen. Speaking to past Cup winner and television commentator Gary Jobson on the new format:
    "It's bold but I'm okay with the catamarans. What we want to see is even racing, but if they wanted to put audience interest through the roof, they would have made it a national event. When I did the 2008 Olympic coverage, viewership in the U.S. would increase by a multiple of 25 when an American was in a Medal Race. Passive viewers become passionate fans when they are cheering for their country."

    So with my glass half full outlook, I remain encouraged by how the event organizer, BMW Oracle Racing, has completely put themselves in a corner and now must deliver. Their legal delay was to rescue the Cup, but their plan now is so extreme that it would be an immense failure to fail. Team owner Larry Ellison has the resources to make this plan succeed. I hope it does.
    -- http://sailingscuttlebutt.blogspot.com/2010/10/glass-half-full.html
  17. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Getting Youth Involved

    ...courtesy scuttlebutt

    * From David Barrow:
    It is interesting to view all of the various comment regarding the new format for the America's Cup and I guess as Mr Ellison currently owns it he can call the shots. Either he will be hailed as a visionary who brought sailing to a whole new generation, increased interest in participation, showed the good side of our sport. Or, the villain who was in a fantastic position to influence globally the sport he obviously loves only to lose the plot in self interest and profit. Some thing tells me, and I so hope I am right, that Mr Ellison is made of sterner stuff and only time will tell.

    One thing that they are hopefully considering is how to embrace the youth element and whether it is feasible to hold an academy event under the same umbrella. One idea could be for each team to sponsor a youth team sailing, in a parallel event, in a smallish mono hull, keeping the cost down, but showing latest technology, canting keel carbon mast etc. Maximum age 18 on a fixed date, crew must all be same nationality, 3 - 4 crew one boat per country. Other countries could enter if manageable. The boat should be original, the youngsters would certainly have an event to aspire to. Just a thought.
  18. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Last Thursday the Sail-World team in the USA, Canada, UK, Europe, New Zealand, Australia and Asia decided it would be good if the sailing community could have their say on the vexed issues of the America’s Cup, Match Racing monohulls versus multihulls, via a Sail-World online survey.

    Within a few hours they had designed and built an on-line survey and launched it to the world. As it required readers to spend an average of 10 minutes answering questions and giving their opinion there was an incentive offered, each entrant would go in the draw to win one of six Musto Snugs. The expectation was that around 30 readers a day would respond.

    It was decided to keep the online survey/competition open for a month to attract around 1,000 responses.

    What happened then? Within 24 hours there were 200 responders, now the number is approaching 700 and the 1,000 detailed responses expected in the month look like they will be received in a week.

    So far surveys have been received from 45 countries and it’s clear that the sailors completing this particular survey are serious sailors; there are many World champions, Olympians, America’s Cup sailors amongst the many hundreds of active sailors giving their opinions on the subjects under discussion.

    The opinions are diverse but illuminating with surprises coming with every question.

    Sail-World Editor at Large Richard Gladwell, whose knowledge of the America’s Cup scene is considerable, is compiling a series of articles on various segments of the survey.
  19. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    GETTING BACK ON CENTER STAGE
    By John Arndt, Latitude 38
    During my recent visit to a sunny, crowded and successful Annapolis boat
    show I spoke to lots of folks in the sailing industry about the America's
    Cup. What amazed me most is how many diehard sailors who make their living
    in sailing had almost no idea about what was going on with the Cup and
    weren't really interested. Certainly some folks from more race oriented
    companies had a little better idea about what was going on but, overall,
    almost nobody knew there was a possibility the Cup could be held in Europe
    and many, but not all, had some awareness of the catamaran decision.

    While not interested in the Cup currently, the added realization the
    America's Cup might be 'defended' in Europe caused any interest to plummet.
    This combines with the nationality issue. Beyond endless lawsuits and
    controversy I'd say it's universal that the loss of nationality requirements
    is one of the main reasons people have lost interest in the Cup. If it were
    to be held in Europe I think the BMW/Oracle PR team is going to have an
    almost insurmountable job trying to get the American public and/or American
    sailors to maintain any interest in the Cup.

    Finally on the multihull there again seemed to be almost universal dismay
    amongst past Cup fans, but also more willingness to give it a try. Most
    sailors have a hard time imagining fast, furious and interesting tactical
    situations emerging from multihull drag races though most are willing to be
    proven wrong. Only time will tell. At least, if the Cup is held in San
    Francisco, the boats will be penned in and they simply won't be able to get
    too far away from each other.

    I'd say the Cup is noticeable in most people's peripheral vision but to get
    back on center stage it's got some real work left to do. The only way that's
    going to happen for Americans is if the Cup is held in America. Beyond that
    it would be much better with nationality requirements for the sailors and
    we'll all just have to hope the catamaran thing works. That's what I heard
    on the docks in Annapolis and I'd have to agree on all points. Like Craig's
    commentary (in Scuttlebutt 3196), I'm optimistic it can work and believe we
    could see a fantastic Cup match on San Francisco Bay that's fun to watch and
    good for sailors and sailing. On the other hand, if it's not, people may
    spend less time watching and more time under sail.
  20. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Hi Brian, thanks for forwarding on the link, I was straight on to that :D . Cheers

    Also, I'm fortunate enough to have some great contacts in the boating world, from Etchells world champions, Olympic coaches, A/C crew etc, and chatting to them to see what there views are on the latest developments on the A/C... I think you could say that everyone I have spoken to were either neutral or hated the idea, and basically said it's designed for the punters.

    One interesting comment I took note of was from a crew off the BMW/Oracle boat. I was chatting to him about the LVPS and how good the racing was, and why didn't we see that before in the A/C? He basically said that there was so much money etc tied up in the A/C campaigns that no one took the risks, the LVPS was no pressure sailing, cause there wasn't that much to play for.

    Now with that in mind... will A/C with the new cats be the same...? Will it be like the 33rd A/C just gone, with the design rules being so open....? Remember it's only 1 on 1 sailing, not fleet sailing like the extreme 44's...

    Far