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The Design Process...

Discussion in 'Yacht Renderings & Plans' started by AMG, Oct 22, 2004.

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  1. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    The black thing is just the port Kiekhaefer trimtab. We will unload her tonight so I may be able to post a close-up later. The sales people are very happy with the overall result so I hope I will be the same...:)

    Regarding Düsseldorf, we will not sell her outside Scandinavia right now so Stockholm (spring) and Bergen (Norway) are the next shows.
  2. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Here the tab is from behind. Not yet splashed but weight was as predicted so hopefully speed will be 40 plus a few knots...:)

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  3. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Just another picture, the guys will work all night to get her ready...;)

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  4. YachtForum

    YachtForum YachtForums Publisher

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    Very interesting. Inverted strakes with no pad. Deadrise looks to be around 24 degrees. Should offer an extremely smooth ride while providing good aeration. As you know, I'm not a fan of duo-delta conic (single step) hulls for high speed apps, but at commuter speeds... it's a very good choice. Fast planing, very little bow rise and good longitudinal dampening.

    Good hull design Lars! :cool:
  5. YachtForum

    YachtForum YachtForums Publisher

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    BTW... I would think the extension boxes would negate the use of trim tabs to some extent? For example... if they are running wet, they would counter the effect of your tabs?
  6. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Future will tell, but the idea of the step is to prevent pitching, the boxes are to give added bouyancy at rest and climbing on to plane without using the tabs which are mainly for side wind trim as the deadrise is 22-45 degrees...

    Only the outer strake of the box should touch the water at speed and also give a grip in turns to override the effect of the induced air from the step... in theory at least... ;)
  7. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Optical Illusion

    Sorry about that AMG. I was looking at what appeared to be a horizontal foil just above the top of the barrel, with a vertical strut, and a dark area on the hull's bottom that appeared as a recess for that foil.


    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/34046-post19.html
  8. Francois

    Francois New Member

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    Thanks Lars for those pictures.Looks like she is coming along very well and will be launched soon .Has the inside been fitted out yet though? Nice planing hull.

    Francois
  9. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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  10. Francois

    Francois New Member

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    Thanks Lars .I had some problem with my computer but now things are up and running again,
    She looks very nice in the trials , nice turning abilities and sure a 46 knots speed is brillant.The interior is neat and compact.
    Nice boat.

    Francois
  11. jmr

    jmr New Member

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    Lars,


    I like your styling on this beautifull boat. :) Thumbs up!

    More pictures maybe?


    Jos




  12. coismov

    coismov Member

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    Lars,
    I was wondering what computer program you use for your renderings. Also, it seems to me that you begin immediately on the computer without any hand-drawn renderings. Am I correct to assume this?

    Cheers,
    Vance
  13. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Hi Vance,

    I am using Freehand 7 in a Mac with Classic mode. I also have Freehand MX for OSX, but there are so many bugs and a zero support from Adobe, so I can not waste my time on using it...

    These are vector programs for illustrations. Perhaps Adobe Illustrator can do the job as well, but with much more work to get the same result.

    You are right, I just play with lines in the computer until it starts to look right and then I try to make it as a design and illustration at the same time. Using grids to get all measurements right, it can later be translated to CAD/CAM programs with not too much work.

    Here are the preliminary lines for the next model in our range, a 29-footer.

    /Lars

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  14. coismov

    coismov Member

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    Thanks Lars!
    One issue, however, that I have heard again and again, is many customers are discontent with the "coldness" of many yacht desgins. Many people have attributed this to the reliance on computer programs for yacht design. I have even discussed this with Carlo Nuvolari. He relayed to me his belief that for a vessle to truly be beautiful, a designer must start with a pencil and paper and only once the lines have been established can he move to the computer. What are your thoughts?
  15. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    Very interesting to see the offset cabin! Are there many other builders in Europe doing this?

    Kelly Cook
  16. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I agree, since historically 99% of the 3D computer designs are made by non-designers. The real designer is drawing by hand OR in a drawing program and later have an engineer/Naval Architect redraw it in a CAD/CAM program. This is where you can get this cold computer influence since the 3D programs are not so adapted to boat design. You often see it in the bow lines.

    When you work in a drawing program there are no such limitations and the result is rather like an old school hand drawn design and the translation into CAD/CAM is within a mm of accuracy, where a hand made draft is just a guideline for the engineer/NA and the styling often comes out more cold or stiff.

    I think I have found my best design tool in this 2D program and after 20 years of use, it is exactly like using a pencil for me. With the advantage of being more flexible, I can move every line or partition like it was in clay and don´t have to start all over or erase the paper drawings. To put ten different shapes on the screen is a matter of minutes instead of hours or days.

    There will hopefully be more inituitive 3D-programs where designers can work in the same way, some say they already exists, but again, from the results I see, there are certain limitations that is making the designs more "cold" and also looking the same as others without personal touch.

    When you work in 2D, the limitations are only in the designer, not the program. It may change with new generations of designers and programs...:)
  17. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    You don´see it often. I made it on a one-off design twenty years ago and then again five years ago before I made this design just over a year ago. Today I have seen it on a couple of other Swedish production boats...

    I think it will remain a mainly Scandinavian feature since we anchor from the stern and walk over the bow.

    This particular design is not about making the most beautiful boat in the world, but to have it fit into the design theme of our other boats and with this practical walkway for kids and dogs and us elderly to enter the boat... ;)

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  18. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Artistic Factor

    Along these same lines (no pun intended), I once wrote a reply to a magazine about an article on Ray Hunt designs:

    Subject: Soundings Article by Ted Danforth, Jr.
    Dear Ted,

    Just finished reading your article about Ray Hunt in the June issue of Soundings, I wanted to write and let you know how much I truly enjoyed the article.

    You captured not only the factual history, but more importantly, some of the essence of being involved with yachts and yacht design itself….. "the measure of total understanding of the nature of a boat."

    And most importantly, you included the oft forgotten element, the sheer line. What a terribly important factor! Romantically stated, but oh so true, "it is simply her sheer … sheer beauty that is. She enters the harbor like a beautiful woman entering a room. Her sheer is the line we try to get right when we doodle boats." So many of today’s boats lack this beauty, and correspondingly, some of the essence of yesteryear’s yachting.

    Your article brought some of that feeling back to me…some of that feeling that first inspired me to want to learn of sailing yachts and their design ….that had me putting together a scrapbook of designs, both good and poor, for future reference.

    Now it so happens that I got quite heavily involved with multihull craft because here is where free thought and innovation abounded, and here it is even tougher to create a pretty sheer line.....


    The point I wish to make is that it does seem very tough for the computer drawn lines to make a pretty sheer or bow flair line. Certainly Lars has shown this not to be. His designs are very pretty.

    His method and choice of software are interesting to those of use who do not yet use a computer for design, and are looking through the huge selection of boat design software to try to make some decision on which one to buy and spend time learning?? I for one get lost here.

    I assume its this 'comfort factor' that you have with this older software that keeps you using it.
    1) Do you feel that a new comer would have a relately easy time learning this software compared to some of the newer programs?
    2) Have you found a newer program you like?

    I believe you have an inherent 'artistic' ability that goes beyond the 'yacht design' ability, and most probably this is something that should be considered by many yacht design firms....they should reach out to the 'artistic' community. On the other hand I tried this recently with an art school graduate who expressed a great interest in yacht design. I was not impressed with his abilities...too many straight lines. (probably drawn by computer)
  19. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    As I suspected. That this would allow an extra wide walkway on a design that is otherwise modest in beam. Here in the US the walkways around the cockpit structure to the bow have become entirely cosmetic! Very narrow, just a few inches. And in at least one popular cruiser I have seen the railing ran up the middle of the walkway, instead of the outer edge. Thus completely impossible to use!!! But still had the classic look, railing and all, from a side profile.

    BTW, nice photo from your boat show!

    Kelly
  20. Angelus

    Angelus New Member

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    Agreement

    I have to agree with 99.9% of Lars commets over the period this thread was started... There are a few 3D software packages available for all aspects of 3D design.. I was aske a couple of months ago to produce a lineplan and mods for a YES/!! 283mtr ship.. I asked would you like a 3D model.. There was a look of astonishment.. So I did the whole project in a model then transfered it from Microstation to Autocad so the 2D guy could use it.. I dont like Auto cad but this way worked quitwe well.. However ,,if there are any Microstation users here reading.. tell me why u cant cut thru a parametric of curved solid anymore.. if you look at a jpeg from a model I built some years ago Under the oceanco/Alfa IV thred , there you can clearly see I cut thru the transom for the freeing port. spurling pipe and more so the passerelle I designed for the yacht.. Now I cant do this with Triforma..Why???

    For the most part, If I understood lars correctly, I'm not really into hulls and calcs to do with.. Give me something an owner want to do, something no other yacht has.. I'll design it. Toys, passerelles liferaft launchers..(Lady Christine) I think Lars you love your work as much as I do!