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Straighten / replace rudder

Discussion in 'Post Yacht' started by Greg Page, Dec 8, 2021.

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  1. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Got ya G!
    But G your rudder is not bent to bad.
    You didn’t notice it nor steering or performance problems.
    I still think you could get it straightened or better than it is right now perhaps not perfect, be done with it and put it back in.
    There has to be a few places right in your own backyard given where you’re located that can do this for you.
    Other than going to Rock Hall propeller.
    Save that money to spend on other stuff for the boat.
  2. Greg Page

    Greg Page Active Member

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    It's an interesting dilema. They will be unable to do anything with the rudder until spring as there is no access to the boat with the travel lift without moving a number of other boats (mine is right against the shop to facilitate other pre-planned work over the winter). If I wait till spring, and then find out it can't be straightened or it cracks trying, do I risk weeks or months delay in launch? Do I want to fret about that possibility all winter? We don't want another short boating season like this year where a scheduled 1 week turned into a month on land.

    Being an engineer I took my calipers and measured the shaft on the good rudder and the bent rudder. I measured the bent shaft at several azimuths and the shaft is measuably thinned by stretching deformation at the bend. If that were in any of the systems I design it would be tagged for replacement. The bend is in a very small area right at the top of the blade, so will be a difficult location to get a press into cleanly, and the blade itself would need to resist the straightening force too.

    What really has me wondering is how in the h___ did some PO do that? The leading and trailing edges of the rudder have no dent's, bends or other visible deformation. For someone to back into something (the rudder is bent forward) hard enough to bend the shaft and not bend the rudder blade seems "challenging". Did they straighten the blade but leave the shaft bent? If so why. Was the shaft defectivly soft to start with which allowed it to bend but the blade not to deform? There is no indication the hull was damaged in the event, another suspision the shaft is very soft. Has it been straightened before?

    The cost of a new rudder is not trivial, but the cost to remove and replace is likely to be as much, so the "part" itself is not the only driver. I generally have a rule if the cost to remove/inspect/repair/reinstall nears the cost of a new part then you might as well get a new part and be done with it. The "cost" of missing a month of boating is more important than a few extra $$ on a very expensive toy whose purpose is to get away and have fun.
  3. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    Your dilemma is very understandable. I don't know what cost delta you are looking at for new vs. repairs but if these rudders are not readily available I would lean toward replacing. I say this based on the way you describe the damage to the rudder as well as potential to impact your season. Plus, how much do you pay to sit in the yard if waiting for a new rudder?

    Even if you repair the existing and NDT it, there is no guarantee you won't have an internal crack that could be issues down the road. Again, I say all this with no understanding of cost of new compared to potential repairs.
  4. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Even if the shaft is cracked or otherwise questionable, a good machine shop can fabricate a replacement shaft and allow the re-use of the rudder blade.
  5. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    From a comfortable armchair distance, it certainly seems that even in the most crowded of conditions that the rudder could be detached aboard and dropped below for water-time repairs. Unless they've jammed materials under your transom, why can't the removal be possible?
    cleanslate likes this.
  6. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Here’s how it got damage…
    Ok.

    I think the PO ran over some heavy poly propylene line lost from a commercial fishing boat.
    A ball of it.
    Going fast as your boat does, they had little time to react and miss.
    Line got in the prop and around the rudder.
    Prop/motor cranked down on the line wrapping it’s self tight along with a loop or two around the blade of the rudder and yanked it forward.

    Just my nutty thought….
    Not to nutty , as I ran over a ball of heavy plastic line in my CC Dory last summer.
    Only got into the prop though.
    Was able to cut it out.
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I picked up a sheet of vis queen years ago. What a mess. Then a couple of years ago, a section of carpet. Both took hours to clear, no mask or snorkel, drifting down the StJohns rriver.lucky, no damage.
  8. Stainless45

    Stainless45 Active Member

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    In the first picture it looks like the rudder is fine, the shaft is probably bent. Those are nice big rudders with the leading edge counterbalanced too. Previous owner probably backed hard into a log or timber
  9. Greg Page

    Greg Page Active Member

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    I ordered the new rudder. The elimination of schedule risk and my worrying about it all winter won out.

    The boat is blocked at a typical height, too low to get the approx 15" of rudder shaft out of the shaft log. Bottom of the rudder is about 6-8" off the ground. They have it next to the shop as I scheduled other work for over the winter so they need power and a managible distance from the boat to tools to the boat to tools ..... There is no way to get the travel lift in to raise the boat without moving multiple other boats (moving to where is a big issue too). Yard is VERY full this year.
  10. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    I got ya. Yard folks can be a bit moody. Let alone tough to get to.
    Tight space you have there.
    Did you read my post on how I thought it got bent in the first place ?
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    If you have ordered a new rudder, exact replacement? MFG?

    To save time (labor charges), you have the winter to loosen the tiller, pillow bearing, gland and some bonding strap maintenance. Do some house keeping back there and prep for new flax (GFO*) packing.

    * https://www.gore.com/products/gore-gfo-fiber
    cleanslate likes this.
  12. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    It's Buck Algonqin ....all the Jersey builders used there stuff. Or made by them ( Buck) per their(Post) specs. Highly unlikely....
    Hmmm, which there to use?
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2021
  13. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Can’t dig a small hole beneath the rudder? Or are you on asphalt/tarmac?
  14. Greg Page

    Greg Page Active Member

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    I would think rudder trailing edge would cut line before bent 1-1/2" dia shaft but who knows??
  15. Greg Page

    Greg Page Active Member

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    Measured rudder, Buck now Hydrosearch rudder fits exact measurements. PN 10R40SS1.5 Ordered from Deep Blue, had in stock.
    cleanslate likes this.
  16. Greg Page

    Greg Page Active Member

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    Concrete. See picture in post #15. Litterally just outside their office door.
  17. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    I like Deep Blue. I got my new shafts this summer from them. Fair price quick turn around. Plus other stuff over the years....always have it in stock.