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State Seeking User Tax

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by jhartog, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Hense: "Most boats this size don't move. Did he have it in a slip at the marina where he could entertain his friends aboard? I assume that he had only crew on board for those "sea trials" or was he actually entertaining?" I suspect state tax asked the same question. I also suspect it wasn't inoperable or on blocks.
  2. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    Ed, for someone decrying speculation in the Bertram thread, you sure are quick to assume and draw conclusions without any facts in this one.
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    What facts are missing? This is a complete story except for a Supreme Court appeal. It should be used as a cautionary tale for anyone who considers witholding their taxes during the appeals process. It's very expensive.
  4. SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

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    Bingo. If you split your time living and cruising between two states that do collect tax on boats, pick a state and pay the darned tax in one of them!
  5. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    Let's see what's speculation in your post:
    1. Should have brought it to RI
    2. Had it in his backyard to show off to friends
    3. Larger boats "never" move
    4. Don't know if the boat was in a slip or on the hard, presuming availability for use
    5. Assume the purpose of being in the marina was a tax dodge
    6. Believe he had a crew aboard, sarcastically putting sea trials in quotes then suspecting he was entertaining (it could have been the yard workers running the boat for sea trials)
    7. Assuming he's a tax cheat who thought he could beat the laws
    8. Assuming he's attempting to scare boaters away from Maine

    Basically, every word you posted is speculation, and condemning the people who own the tools by which you make your living.

    I'll never understand biting the hand that feeds you.
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Let's look at the facts:
    1) The state of Maine determined that he had the boat "available for use" for over the alloted time.
    2) He still didn't pay the taxes due.
    3) He appealed and the state of Maine determined again that he was trying to dodge the taxes he owed and slapped him with interest and penalties.
    That is not speculation and I don't see that this person or anybody who tries to cruise on the cheap will put 10 cents into my pocket. Certainly doesn't feed me. In fact they cost me money since we who do pay our taxes have to make up for them. They're also the ones who will complain about my earning a modest living so they can put more into their own pockets. He's a bum and I hope they double his debt again.
  7. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    I can only assume you've never had the displeasure of being on the wrong end of the "guilty until proven innocent" approach of tax (or any, really) collectors.

    I recently received a notice dunning my father and his business for unpaid sales taxes for the year of 2005. My father passed away in 2002, his business was shut down in 1998, and the department of state freely admits this. That, however, did not stop the state dept of tax & finance from sending around a process server to reinforce the collection attempt after I faxed the death certificate, certificate of defunct status, and probate notice from my home. The notice served now names me as a responsible party because I had that paperwork.

    In 2005, I was working for GM. Are you going to presume I'm a tax cheat because the state is desperate for money, so they're pursuing a dead guy's son for taxes from a business that was nonexistent for nearly a decade?

    I think you've got a particularly jaundiced view, one which runs contrary to the American rule of law. The state of Maine has a vested interest in finding the guy guilty, and the more they spend to prosecute the more they have a desperation for a finding of guilt. It's a sad world where guilty until proven innocent is applauded.

    I distrust the government more than I distrust the people.
  8. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Taxes should only be paid in the State where you live except for items purchased while in another State, if someone chooses to live in a State that has no sales tax it is grossly unfair to tax that person who visits with transportation from a tax exempt State, what happens to Autos when visiting Maine from Rhode Isl. taxed also?? I think not....just go after the ones who make lots of money and have the resources to pay, after all, was not Ted K from Maine, ? another politican who loved to tax the rich...keep taxing them and there will be no one to pay the new health care bill.
  9. jdpeterson

    jdpeterson New Member

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    Whoever your father's estate Executor was, they failed to file with Tax & Finance to correctly close the business. If you’re looking for someone to blame, blame the Executor, not the State.

    Having gone through the process of terminating corporations in both Florida and California, it’s tedious but not difficult. It’s just paperwork… :rolleyes:
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Actually, Ted K was from Mass. You may be thinking of Bush who happened to love dodging things and having others pay for his folleys. As for the cars it is the same. I bought my cars in NY. When I moved to Florida I got hit by the sales tax again, and again when I moved back to NY. I also had a nasty (expensive) go round with IRS recently. I paid, then fought. It's the way it's done unless you want to incur penalties. The party in question lives in Maine & Florida and tried not to pay tax to either. Also, nobody is taxed for visiting Maine, cruising in Maine or having work done in Maine. So anybody who heeds this deadbeats scare tactics is just a fool who misses out on some great cruising. When a guy stays in Maine for 27 days and then leaves his boat there for his friends to use or to use when he comes up on the weekends through the rest of the summer that boat resides in Maine. Pay your taxes like the rest of the residents, summer and year round.
  11. Jimeril

    Jimeril New Member

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    NYCAP you got screwed. If you pay the sales tax in one state you dont have to pay it in another, as long is is the same rate as the new state. Have done this many times with vehicles and most recently on a boat. I bought a boat in Texas(the state of residence) in 2005 paid $38,000 in sales tax. Moved the boat FL and decided to leave it there, went to the county tax collector, provided the bill of sale and left with a FL sticker for $47.00 valid from the date I went to the office until my birthday.
  12. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Totally agree and it's the same for boats. Knew it then, but it was around the time states were just starting to do it. They didn't care about what was paid in other states and it just wasn't worth the time and effort to fight it. I learned a long time ago that, unless it's a lot of money and you are absolutely sure of your position, fighting with the tax man is an exercise in futility. Win or lose you're marked.
  13. Jimeril

    Jimeril New Member

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    I totally agree, just went through that with property taxes. County raised property taxes about 7%, fought it and won but attorney got all but about $500. The next year they raised the taxes 15% so at some point you have to decide, do you want to give the money to an attorney or the govt.
  14. maldwin

    maldwin Senior Member

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    NY CAP, I agree that taxes should be paid in one's state of residence, but the mere fact that a boat is in Me for 27 days plus weekends should not make that boat a Maine resident. What if the boat then goes to Fl for 8 months? Should the owner pay taxes in both states?
  15. SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

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    No, but the owner in question never paid tax in any state. Most states have reciprocity. If you pay in one, you don't pay fully again in another. Some owners make a game out of dodging the tax. If you keep a boat moving, maybe you can be successful at that for a while. The tax man usually catches up some time some where.
  16. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I believe the story that was related said the owner was in maine for 27 day. The boat was there, availble for use, longer.
  17. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    It is common in Maryland to see the tax collectors walking around the marinas in the spring time trying to nab the people who by a boat and register it in Delaware where there is no state tax.
    Useda be you could show some fuel recipts and beat MD out of the tax.
    MD got smart and want slip recipts now.

    I paid the MD tax when I bought my boat and I keep it in MD.
    I live in PA and PA tried to tax me on the boat.
    My boat has never even been in PA waters, not once.
    ( there Delaware River is a little thick for my liking )
    I replied to their letter with proof of primary location of the boat ( reciepts of slip rental ) and the problem went away.
    MD is 5 % PA is 6%, I would have owed the balance of 1% to PA.

    I hate taxes. I could go on and on about how contractors get reemed in PA. But I pay them 'cause I gotta.
    The Maine businessman has gotta pay his taxes as well. I agree w/ NYCAP.
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Just read in P&MY that Maine has slashed its sales tax on boats from 5% to 2%. That will give buyers of boats costing under $900,000 (Florida's tax cap is $18,000 I believe) something to think about.