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Seeking advice on boat ownership & operation for newbie

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Jytek, Nov 22, 2021.

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  1. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    As to comparing functionality of pod vs. thrusters, that is a thesis:) I recommend you keep reading and asking. I already wrote what I think as the end result. From my perspective pod is wonderful when it is maintained and it works and you don't hit anything. Mind you, there is a lot of computer control, hydraulics and gearing that pods are adding to the complexity of turning a prop and turning a boat. Not that thrusters are issue free, but certainly simpler and less worry about hitting a dead head and shearing off your pod drive...

    To find out if a boat has pods drive, look at powerplant/engine data on listings. For pods in the length boat you will see "IPS" or "VolvoIPS" as the most common variation or Zeus which is becoming, if not already, much less likely to be installed. Zeus had some issues with Mercury and Cummins not getting along as far as I can tell. IPS by Volvo Penta is very current and very common.
  2. Squan Stuart

    Squan Stuart New Member

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    You might have a better understanding of all the above information by chartering a boat for several trips and discover with your own eyes what is involved in operating a boat. Observe the various chores the crew performs on deck and what the skipper does at the wheel. It will make you think about what you will need to know and if you could handle it. Ask the crew how long they have been doing it and several of the other questions you have posted.
    cleanslate and Capt Ralph like this.
  3. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Ref docking, yes "great access" is about being able to get where you need to be -- safely, expeditiously -- to handle lines. Skinny or non-existent side-decks, for example, often aren't great. Side doors near a lower helm, for example, can be a useful feature. Another nice to have feature for docking is visibility from helm to crew, not always possible, often solvable with headsets if nothing else.

    ("Access" has another whole importance that you'll want to learn about/consider: the ability to service engines (all round access is ideal, not always available until boats get big) and other systems like genset, ACs, water heaters, etc.)

    There will often be dock hands available at marinas, especially at transient marinas. OTOH, they can usually really screw up what started out as a perfectly good landing. In some cases, they really have a clue. In many (most?) cases it's a young kid who's never docked a big boat before, and isn't capable of following simple directions like "please make this line fast on that cleat." You will be best off learning to dock by yourself (yourselves). Ideally, no "pulling" required.


    Somebody else mentioned Volvo IPS and Zeus; mostly that's the key to pods in boat ads.

    Common systems:
    - single engine
    - single engine with bow and/or stern thrusters
    - single engine with bow and/or stern thrusters and "yacht controller"
    - twin engines
    - twin engines with bow and/or stern thrusters
    - twin engines with bow and/or stern thrusters and "yacht controller"- pods (usually twins, as far as I know)
    - pods with bow and/or stern thruster (but the pods themselves can sorta-kinda do -- or help do -- what thrusters do)

    Pros/cons for all, lots of reading (already posted) that you can do here or elsewhere. I've said "yacht controller" as short-hand for an addition system that let's you control gears and thrusters all in concert (and there might even be a brand name called that).

    The short version is that each of these can usually be maneuvered -- in most weather, some easier than others, some at greater expense -- with some combination of gear, thrust, and line-handling. For the simple categories, you might read Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship to get an idea.

    -Chris
    T.T. likes this.
  4. sgawiser

    sgawiser New Member

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    Lots of good advice already. Just a couple of suggestions from our experience.
    Never rely on dockhands! Not only are many not knowledgeable, but also there will be circumstances when you will want to dock with no one around. Those situations tend to be when there are weather issues or other unexpected events.
    As you get older, you also have to think about what happens if one of you is not able to fully participate as a result of an injury. We have been lucky, but friends have suffered significant injury while on board and you have to be able to get to a dock and tie up.
    The larger the boat, in general, the more the physical challenge.
    As a proponent of pods, we find it very important for confidence particularly in docking for less experienced operators. My wife can dock the boat after a very short set of lessons from the salesperson who did three different days of lessons, one with me, one with both of us and one with her aboard without me there.

    Most important, you want to be able to enjoy the experience and that means the boat has to not only provide comfort and safetly, but also needs to be something that fits both your experience and what your cruising plans are.

    Enjoy!
  5. Jytek

    Jytek Member

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    I've looked at dozens of boat ads, mostly at Boat Trader, and never saw any mention of anything relating to IPS, pods, or Zeus, etc. Is there any way to search for boats with pods? I don't even see any mention of bow (or stern) thrusters. Are they always mentioned or just assumed to be there??
  6. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Charter, charter, charter.....a trawler, a sport fish, a motor yacht, a run-about- or sport boat. Save your money before you buy and spend on some charters/rentals.
    What all the others have said already with various info should be very well considered .
    Can you do the needed upkeep and maintenance required for a boat or are you expecting the boat yard to do it for you? Huge difference in $$$ spent for that.

    My two cents, make sure you can get around the boat EVERYWHERE with relative ease. From the bilge, engine room/space, all decks, fly bridge, fore and aft on deck and interior.
    OH! Don't forget the @#$%er, when you sit on it, do you knees hit the bulk head (wall) door, etc..MOST important ! I know I need my space to '' enjoy the go ''.

    The less steps and ladders the better.
    Can you get to all around all motors and pumps etc. ? You will need to at some point, no matter who is maintaining the boat.
  7. Jytek

    Jytek Member

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    You guys have convinced me that I need to hire a temporary captain, to learn how to handle the boat, and navigate. Good idea. So, that's a given.

    Access seems to be more limited on smaller boats. Not as easy to get from one end to the other (for docking, etc.).

    I would like to add a link to a boat, but I don't know if it's allowed (suggestions here??). But, does anyone have any experience or advice about 2007 Cruisers Yachts 415 Express Motoryacht?? That seems like it might fit our needs & desires. Thoughts anyone??
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Look at Yachtworld. You'll get a better picture of available boats and can select by size and type and price. It will give you an overview of the market.
    cleanslate likes this.
  9. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    Access will vary greatly depending on boat type. My previous boat was a 39' and my current is 54'. Both are sportfish models and honestly, access is about the same for both. Nearly all sportfish type boats will have a fairly narrow path along the hull side to get to the bow or you can come through the hatch. Trawlers, raised pilothouse, or more cruising type yachts will often have a true walkway guarded by a solid bulwark making access veryeasy.

    Room to get around engines and do maintenance will also vary greatly depending on type of boat. Bigger boats = bigger engine rooms but also bigger engines and typically way more systems to operate, maintain and repair.

    For feedback on specific boats you will likely get more input if you start a new thread asking about the specific make and model.
    cleanslate likes this.
  10. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Another important thing is your first step!
    Quite literally…

    How easy is it to step a board the boat at the dock?
    Will you need large cumbersome steps to get a board the boat which are heavy as hell and hard to load onto the boat and take with you.

    In my opinion you want a boat that only takes one or two steps at the most to get a board.
    Docks obviously very in height so sometime you won’t need steps at all but I think you get the general idea.

    You want a boat that’s easy to board.
    Just something to definitely consider.
  11. motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    Jytek, I noticed that you are in Sunset Beach, NC. I am familiar with that area. Why don’t you see if you can get a runabout or go with someone that has a boat (most any size) and make a run to Wrightsville Beach. Go there and dock and dine. that trip will give you a lot of what you can expect on the ICW. You will have shoal areas, a buoy flip when you run the cape fear river, then snows cut. Then a strong current to dock with at Wrightsville Beach. If you can read the marks and navigate from Sunset to Wrightsville then that should give you some confidence.
  12. Jytek

    Jytek Member

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    Very good point! And one that we have started considering. Many of the boats that I looked at (online) have rear swim platforms. For low docks, I would think that would make it very easy. I've been in boats that had steps inside, and the dock was still at least 2 feet above the railing. It was a real choir to get off and on the boat from that dock. It was a solid dock (non-floating) and had to be high for the rising tide. So I know what you're saying.
  13. Jytek

    Jytek Member

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    That's a real good idea. I don't know how to go about it, but I bet I could talk to someone at one of the local marinas, they could get me connected with someone. Thanks!
  14. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    I dunno much about ads on Boat Trader; I've usually shopped on Yachtworld, and info on IPS (or not) would be in the "Propulsion" section, either by engine nomenclature (e.g., Volvo IPS xxxx or Zeus xxxx) or in the Drive Type field (e.g., pods).

    Thrusters may or may not be mentioned in another section, somewhat dependent on the quality of the listing broker... but if not mentionede, that's a good early question for the broker... and thrusters can usually be added after-the-fact.

    -Chris
  15. Jytek

    Jytek Member

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    Boat Trader and Yachtworld ads look identical. I just find Boat Trader website a little easier to search, but that could just be that I'm more used to it.

    I finally saw a couple of boat ads that listed pods or IPS. I just wish their search engines has a way to add that and/or thrusters to the search filters.
  16. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    Boat Trader and YachtWorld are a part of Boats Group which is owned by Permira. I can’t think of a time when a client mentions YachtWorld without adding that they dislike the site.

    I don’t go on the retail version very often but on the broker side they have made extensive changes including all new platforms which in my opinion have made for an unpleasant user experience and I’ve told them so. I get Techspeak word salads in response. They own the market. They have no real competition and their corporate “personality” reflects that.
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  17. retiredguy

    retiredguy Member

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    Can you walk and chew gum at the same time? If so you can handle the boat. Contrary to what many would say, it is not rocket science. Maybe a week cruise with someone knowledgeable and plain common sense will do the trick. I don't think there is any body of water better documented and electronic charts kept up to date than the ICW. Buy a boat in good shape and your good to go.
  18. Jytek

    Jytek Member

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    I'm not nearly as concerned about me being able to learn to run a boat. I love to learn new things and I think this will fit right in there for me. I am somewhat concerned about docking, etc. My wife has some issues with getting around fast. I feel like she would be able to handle all but the worst of conditions. But we're still doing our homework to see if there are limitations that would stop us. Right now we both think we would really enjoy having a boat to ride around & stay overnight if desired, and do some traveling.
  19. retiredguy

    retiredguy Member

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    I would say just do it. Docking is easily picked up with a bit of practice and your VHF is your best friend. I have yet to see a marina that wouldn't have someone ready to tie a boat up when asked. In fact when I radio or call (cell) they always ask if I want a line handler ready.

    Organizing your docking lines ahead of time makes the entire thing a non-event. Also, your wife might be better suited to be at the wheel and you handle lines. Probably a good thing for you to rotate so either of you can do either task. Its a sure bet there will be a time you won't be able to be at the helm for some reason.
  20. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Let me repeat what I said early in this thread.

    the most critical thing is the layout of the boat. Wide protected side decks, the helm only a few steps from your spring lines and as few steps as possible.

    I have single handed boats up to 84 feet without issues. On the other hand, some 45 footer are near impossible to handle without at least one agile crew

    As to hoping you can call the marina and get qualified help... good luck. Over the years I ve learned not to rely on dock hands unless I knew they knew what they were doing. You never know what you re going to get. I ve had to argue with some dock hands to get them to clear a line so I could spring on it... moron though he could pull a 70 footer against wind and current!
    sgawiser likes this.