Click for Mag Bay Click for Abeking Click for Ocean Alexander Click for Cheoy Lee Click for Llebroc

Seafury Surface Drives

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by HTMO9, Apr 17, 2015.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Europe
    Riva are great quality boats with great performance but one has to like the design of their current models, especially their bigger once.

    During our first "shopping tour", the 85 Opera was my oldest sons and my favorite boat. But Riva stopped the production of this model before we could order it.

    85 Opera.JPG
    She was a real beauty, inside and outside. Italo design at its best. Besides the typical Italian (below standard) sized crew quarters, a very practical layout. To bad, its history.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oPXFWzO0g-I

    My favorite Riva at the moment is the 52 Rivale. A smaller boat but in my personal opinion, the nicest looking Riva at the moment.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  2. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    5,313
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    The Duchessa may be the nearest to the Opera in the line today since the Opera was a flybridge model but then it lacks the speed that the open and coupe models have. That's our problem with the flybridge models in general is that the lack of speed and the lack of the range we'd like. We're happy with the 40 knots, 36 kt. cruise of the opens and coupes but the 32 knot, 28 cruise of the bridge models just isn't Riva enough. One of our best friends bought a Rivale a few months ago.

    The new 76 is 37 knot, 32 cruise but it's very futuristic.
  3. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Europe
    As you said OB, it is a matter of personal taste. The Riva boats really stick out of the Ferretti fleet. But the Riva boats are not the lightest among their competitors. I would call that conservative construction methods combined with ultra modern design :).

    But, as the old Romans used to say: "Alea iacta est".

    Just wait and see.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    5,313
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Absolutely not the lightest. So far they have adhered to their tradition and character, whether one sees that as good or bad. The two new models are a bit different but still looks like same conservative construction. With the deserved criticism of Ferretti on the Bertram fiasco (although honestly the mistake was the purchase initially), Ferretti to this point has kept the individuality of the different lines quite well. When we tested a Pershing, it was so uniquely different from Riva, as it should be. Even Riva's ultra modern designs as you call some of their newer models, don't seem out of character with the rest. Now our Riva's are old designs.

    We will wait and see, Suetonius.
  5. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Europe
    That is (in the eyes of my boys) the fun behind powerboating:

    Speed !!!



    A Pershing 92 at above 40 Kts.
  6. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    655
    Location:
    Gone
    HTM09,

    It seems to me below 20 knots there are several choices... all of them submerged drive systems, including: props, variable pitch props, pods, and counter rotating props

    Between 20 and 30 knots is about the same but one might consider in addition to the above water jet and surface drive is most time is on the upper limit.

    Between 30 and 40 knots perhaps in smaller boats pods are still possible. But really only three choices are available variable pitch props, surface drive and water jet... if one is operating on the lower end then really the variable pitch prop is the better choice. But if operation is primarily on the high end the water jet and surface drive come into there own.

    The problem with water jets is they take up lots of internal volume or length which places the engines forward so this is only a real option on larger boats... or boats where internal volume is not primary concern day boats. I suppose maybe 80 ft. is the transition point where water jets are possible.

    Actually, what might be interesting is twin surface drives powered by diesel as primary source and a centerline water jet with a turbine... for sprints. The turbine starts and warms quickly but can be used for that supercharge when desired.
  7. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Europe
    Karo, I agree with you on all points. The variable pitch props are the most practicable, most efficient and best handling (non podded) system for "normal" speed ranges from 0 to almost 40 Kts. But we are still unable to find a production boat builder or even a semi custom yacht builder, willing to build a yacht with such setup. The Norwegian Servo Gear company has the best VPP system for yachts of this size in their portfolio.

    The turbine option would be an total overkill for a yacht below 120 ft in length. Overmarine has built a Mangusta 108 with twin Vericor TF 40 turbines and as far as I know, no additional diesel engines for slow speed an docking. I have watched this boat leaving the Port Hercules yacht harbour by using its turbines (and not a tow). The skipper most likely lost all friends among his jetty neighbours during his maneuvering :).

    Below a Mangusta starting up its center turbine while still moored.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ellhZWC4MG8

    The Pershing 115 can be ordered with a central booster jet, powered by a TF 50 turbine. But this turbine can not be started below 10 to 15 Kts, due to exhaust gas reclycling and water ingress into the exhaust pipe of the turbine.

    The wildest example of a turbine powered yacht for me, is the Wally 1118 Power. Fast beyond any safe limit but it has at least two additional small diesel engines for slow speed and docking.

    Very high power to weight ratios, very high performance and small in size but the procurement and maintenance costs of turbines for yachts are ridiculous.

    And you need an specially trained and qualified engineer to operate those turbines in a yacht. Otherwise they (and may be the whole boat) wont live very long and your insurance company may not like you anymore.

    Below a picture of the engine room of a Pershing 115 with central turbine. Not much room and probably quite hot and noisy in the engine room.

    Pershing 115 turbine.JPG
  8. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    655
    Location:
    Gone
    HTM09
    I have seen that thing personally... and it was both funny, as I was watching on shore at a distance... but if I had been anywhere near it on the boat... or it was near my boat or God forbid moored near it... I would have been very much less than happy. But is is a fun hobby boat for those involved and operating it.

    Moonen has built several boats with the servo gear drive... both Nilo and Phoebe are for sale. But they are limited to 26 knots and are larger than you like... and are heavier and semi-planing. C-32 Cat powered.

    Actually the servo gear is very similar to the Levi-drive subject of this thread... except it is underwater and under the boat hull at the extreme aft end. But it has builtin semi-tunnels in the hull. I think any builder could install it but in a fiberglass hull they would have to make a couple tunnel bump inserts for the mold. Of course an aluminum hull can be anything you want.
  9. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Europe
    For political correctness, I have to ask my son to buy one of those:

    Pro: Zero carbon footprint while operated.
    Zero carbon footprint during build, if made by hand and all tools are made of stone.
    Pretty fast, even without or against the wind.
    Big performance, when entring Port Hercules harbour!

    Con: Many crew to feed.
    Many crew (if you have to pay them) :D.
    Mostly likely only short range, if one wants to go for water skiing.
    Those drums are noisy!

    Malteser_Galeere.jpg

    There is no more copyright on the picture, it is from 1629 :).
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    11,570
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Perhaps, but the crew costs would kill you!
  11. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Europe
    Only if you have to pay them :). I do not believe, those poor souls were paid at all. They just had the choice between dungeon, head chopped off or chained to one of those.

    I was only making a joke about all this political correctness. We are all yacht lovers and not some type of bigots, aren't we?

    My son was asked, how he could buy a boat that uses (so much) fuel. His answer was, BECAUSE!
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    11,570
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    If only he could use Nuclear power, then he could get plenty of power and speed.....hehehe

    Perhaps your son needs to get a taste for a SF. I'm sure Tribute could build something along the lines of the last Speed Merchant that is fuel efficient and blazingly fast......46.8 knots with 1150hp MTU's and 61'. I'm sure if you got rid of the tower and outriggers and any other fishing stuff you might hit 50 knots! The custom Sportfish also ride better than your typical Pershings and Mangusta's and such.
    Last edited: May 7, 2015
  13. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Europe
    I personally do like SF yachts very well, both for design and performance, also I have no clue about game fishing. And for me, the outriggers and tuna tower are the best lookings things on a SF.

    But if my daughter in law would see something like this (with her children on board), my son would get soon a letter from her lawyer :D.

    mip.jpg
  14. Bill106

    Bill106 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    389
    Location:
    Beaufort NC
    Rich could most definitely meet those numbers with conventional shaft drive! As you know, interior accommodations of a SF are meager compared to the types HTM09 is looking at but I'm sure he (or other custom builders :)) could adapt their proven hull forms to different superstructures.

    Talk about water over the transom, here's a pic I was sent of one of mine last year down in the Dominican Republic. By the level I figured it's right at 20,000 pounds of water. They went on to release the fish they were fighting but still gives me shudders looking at it!

    090.JPG
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2015
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    11,570
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    That looks to be a very needless backdown as the reel is almost full of line. Also a huge distraction for the crew that are trying to catch and release the fish.
  16. Bill106

    Bill106 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    389
    Location:
    Beaufort NC
    My humblest apologies Carl (or whichever mod caught the too large picture size), I wasn't paying attention and mistook file size for the pixel width. In between coats of clear on a Hatteras transom and maybe the respirator wasn't tight enough!

    I totally agree it was needless or excessive backing down Capt J! Worst part was the alcohol abuse, two cans floating over the transom!

    Hope this pic is sized properly.
    090 - Copy.JPG
  17. Dan schott

    Dan schott New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    I see discussions on Seafury Drives. I have been using Seafury drives on my 53' and they are great and have had no maintence problems. The service from Seafury has be en good although I have not had any need for anything. About 800 hrs on the drives. Call is you need info. NUMBER REMOVED
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2015
  18. Geobsum

    Geobsum New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Ohio
    I have run a pair of arnesons ASD 12 for 21 years in fresh water and just had to have the seals redone. Only cost around $7,000.00. Very reliable if you change the gear oil each season and keep them clean.

    The problem I see with the Sea fury drives is there is nothing to protect the props in front of them. The fin is on the rear and it is too late if you are moving forward! Props tend to be very expensive.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    11,570
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    What boat, props, and speed do you have on this ASD 12 boat, we just changed all the seals and serviced the drives also? I'm managing a 59' Baia with 760hp 8v92 ddec's, with 30"x30" 5 blade rolla's, we saw 32 knots at WOT 2200/2225 rpms, I just had a little more work done to the props to try to get another 100 rpms and speed. They were origionally 30x32".
  20. Geobsum

    Geobsum New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Ohio
    53 aluminum Diaship with 1000 hp MTU engines ZF gears Rolla ss 30 in cleaver props which cruised at 43 knots until this last Labor Day when I had a governor failure and blew up my port engine which has been the subject of the technical forum "Bosch. Governor failure". Cruise on the Great Lakes not salt water!

Share This Page