Safety Drills?

ayachtguy,

As an "****' engineer I would have to say that when I read 'how other captains" etc in your original post that would mean than you are a captain and you are asking your peers a question.

However there are alot of us with alot of experience with alot of bits of paper showing the world how great we are who question what is a captain on a yacht.

Does a captain on a cruise ship with a crew of thousands offer a $100 or an ipod to the best crewman at a drill.

Do you want to employ a crewman or women who will only push themselves to learn only if they are going to win a prize.

You may find that the answers you do not neccessarily agree with or find offensive come from those of us who worked commerically and took the job very profesionally and all safety issues were taught to us not just to help others but to make sure we looked after ourselves as well.

Mind you maybe if they had ipods in my time I probably would not have turned it down but lugging an eight track around did not look very cool.

This time your incorrect sir !

Then why didn't he say so ? And as the OP stated, although I read where you
disagree, why is the OP's qualifications important ? You might want to
consider that the more levels of experience, and expertise that could be
shared about a particular topic the better for the many levels of expertise,
or lack of, of the readers that might be interested in this, or another topic.

I would submit the framing when it comes to any kind of safety is
usually best when presented in a manner that anyone, and everyone
can learn something from the answer.
Finding fault with a question is often very easy, but offering
a good answer that may lead to a solution requires more than a "poke" !

KIWI's remarks were made in Post#7 after the topic was fleshed out,
and understood.

In no way was his comment, and question helpful in regards to the
topic.
In retort I would claim that KIWI's post was the first to criticize, not
mine.
If one does not want to be attacked, maybe one should refrain from
doing so to others.

I bet I, and maybe others, could learn something about
maybe a better way to instill the importance of boat safety, and
perhaps some interesting ways to learn, teach, and practice safety drills.
If this thread had been given a fair chance to develop.

It is my understanding that when it comes to the big three safety drills
Abandon Ship, Fire, and Man Overboard, for boating that each and every
crewman on board should be just as proficient as anyone else on board,
including the captain.

Seeking different ways to inspire, and teach safety drills is a good
idea in my opinion. Maybe the SOLA's cover every idea known to
mankind on the topic, but there is nothing wrong in looking for new
ideas. Do you have any ?


I apologize to the OP for continuing the hi-jack. I will cease and desist.
Hopefully this thread can be rescued with some deletions !

FWIW, I have a posted emergency muster lists at various locations that the crew can look at regularly, like in the crew head across from the toilet if you are sitting on it, that the crew and I go over from time to time. And I run periodic safety drills. Even if it's just going over how to deploy the liferaft, use the AED or emergency oxygen kit, etc. on a day when we aren't busy with boat work.

Too bad this thread got so badly derailed since I think it's an interesting question. Too often, those who are not strictly mariners (stewards and the like) participate in drills because they have to, not because they are interested. Better to make the drills interesting and informative than to simply repeat the same old over and over. I'd love to hear other suggestions, but here are some that I've done from time to time:

1. On our public dinner cruise boat, drills tend to be called over a PA by the Ops crew (after the passengers have been discharged). Instead, I will grab a service or galley staff and have them initiate the drill. For example, I'll grab a galley staff and tell them that their flattop grill has started a fire. Or, I'll grab a stew and, pointing at the water tell them that there's a person overboard what now? How do they communicate the problem to the rest of the crew? What is the crew's response? How long does it take for the information to get to the wheelhouse? Get everyone to participate in originating the drill. It won't always be an operations person who spots the danger.

2. Fire drills tend to always concentrate on the types, extinguisher selection and use, and on using the fire stations. I also will randomly grab a crew member and tell them to start the fire pump. Or, have them find a fire that is not in the engine room or galley (e.g., a trash can). What about a review of forceable entry tools? First aid burn treatment? When to use a fog or a stream from the fire hose and what the possible dangers are in each.

3. Abandon ship drills are often overlooked. Just did one today that was the first for all but 2 of my 19 crew members. I don't schedule the drills myself but everyone learned a bunch from this one. We're inland only so our abandon ship scenarios are much different than yours, but even making sure that the command is "prepare to abandon ship" NOT "abandon ship" is a huge step.

4. Simulating first aid emergencies is good, but so is a review of likely first aid issues that might come up on the boat. For example, we are currently having a problem with hornets in this part of the world. They're plentiful and angry. Covering bee stings, allergic reactions, first aid options, first aid kit supplies, etc., have all been discussed. We just had a young child who was stung and my First Officer knew how to remove the stinger because of a review we'd done just a week or two before. Sign up for a weekly first aid lesson at www.protrainings.com. I looked for the video link but didn't find it. Send them an email and I'm sure they'll pass it along. Not every lesson is a hit but they're short and serve as a good techniques reminder.

5. Teachable moments are as important as drills. When you see a crew member not doing anything, or joking around with a co-worker, grab them for a quick drill. Where's the fuel shut off? How do you put on a life jacket (correctly!!)? What's in the first aid kit? Where are the emergency hand held radios or spot lights?

Here's a list of the drills that we run as a public operation (the ones I can think of off the top of my head): MOB, Fire, Blood Born Pathogen, Abandon Ship, Terrorist/Security, First Aid, Fight, and Collision. In addition, the ops crew spends the first 30-45 minutes of every cruise with the wheelhouse locked talking about at least one, and sometimes all, of the 4-S's: Safety, Security, Seamanship, Sanitation. If we're feeling up to it we might also add the 5th "s". (You figure it out...) Also take a look at Fire Fighter Close Calls.com. They don't all apply, but there are several teachable lessons here.

There are so many people with good information on this site. One of the reasons I don't participate more often is the all too frequent number of times the old guard take great questions like this and presume that the questioner is poorly trained, incapable, or moronic. ayachtguy asked a good question; one that deserved a far better round of answers then those he got.

Let me derail this thread for just a minute...

The bickering that has gone on is why some countries go to war.
As Carl professes, YF is not his site but our site, your site, my site. If we are gioing to play in the same sandbox, then we need to get along. Nobody has to agree what someone else says or doesn't say. And we can offer constructive criticism where desired. But we need to remember that YF is one big melting pot; many levels of people with varying degrees of experience (yachting and life related) from different corners of the world. What may be tolerated in one culture may not be in another. And with the economic and other pressures around us, tempers may be a bit easier and faster to flare. YF is a bit of a neutralizer. We should be able to say what we want (within reason and not to defame others) and also take the disagreements like adults. YF's admin had to tell us once to get along and be careful on how things are said. Let's not have him step in again, because next time it could be worse (perhaps a few may be POOF'ed).
Now let's get back to the business of yachting and act our ages, not our shoe sizes. Check the egos at the door.

Amen....

Over the years I have done countless drills, the vast majority were mind numbingly boring. To my way of thinking this is ineffective and does little or nothing in educating or preparing the crew for the real thing, I can however say that the drills that were most effective in making crew think and discuss the what if's, maybe's and face the short comings of existing training were invariably carried out at very short notice often at unexpected times and made as realistic as possible.

Some suggestions

A smoke bomb in the anchor locker

Make up a man overboard dummy, coveralls stuffed with rags and wearing a life jacket. Not only does this truly simulate the difficulties faced when looking for someone in the water but you now have to face the problem of how to retrieve a 180+ lb inert body.

The previously mentioned dummy can in fact become the clumsy accident prone crew member that falls down stairs, becomes trapped in the anchor locker with a smoke bomb and countless other mishaps.

On most boats drills are boring and mundane and only really carried out to tick the box, but it can also be a fun and useful tool to pull the crew together to form a tight knit team it is really only up to the imagination of the captain and senior crew.