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Running Gear Antifoul...?

Discussion in 'Props, Shafts & Seals' started by Dhowdodger, Jun 10, 2006.

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  1. Dhowdodger

    Dhowdodger New Member

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    Hi there my first time posting on this forum, looks good, glad I came across it.
    I have been stuck on copper coat antifouling for both sailing and motor yachts for some time and can highly recommend it.

    However my stern gear has stripped off its coat after less than a year. (Alloy trim tabs and bronze p brackets).

    Can anyone recommend a product that works well and stays on these areas and perhaps the shafts and dare I mention props ??
  2. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    Sorry so long on the response. Had to weigh your need for an answer against pressing issues during the week. I’ve got an answer that might be worth looking into, but first I’m going to cover a few basics…

    Wive’s tales…

    I once heard an old-salt talk about a recipe his wife suggested…using Cayenne pepper as a deterrent against fouling by mixing it with fiberglass resin and hardener, then coating the props. Obviously, this was less toxic to the environment than most bottom coats, but I have no idea if this really works. If anything, it probably keeps fish away!

    Vapor trails…

    Obviously, an ablative antifouling paint won't last on props. Lots of people have primed props and then coated them with a hard antifouling paint in an attempt to postpone the inevitable. If the boat is going to sit for a prolonged period, then coating the props will help, but ultimately it's going to degrade with use. Short of ceramics, I don’t know of any coating that will last on a prop and certainly none that will withstand cavitation burns.

    Busting Mussels and Myths…

    Let me preface this response by saying, I’m an extremely skeptical person. I’m one of those who guys who questions if Johnson’s Baby Shampoo really IS better for babies! If I don’t have hard stats, it’s just hearsay in my book. Short of that, I trust the collective knowledge of my peers.

    At this year’s Palm Beach Boat Show, I met with the folks from Mussel Buster...

    http://www.musselbuster.com/mb.htm

    They've displayed at the Miami & Palm Beach shows for the past couple of years and have accumulated some pretty good testimonials on their product, specifically developed to prevent fouling on props.

    In speaking with a company representative, he dropped a few hydrodynamic buzzwords relating to the performance of props coated with their process. It was clear that he didn’t understand the physics and the math didn’t add up for me. I walked away a little uneasy with his claims of performance and basically… discounted the product.

    When you raised the question about protecting stern gear, I remembered Mussel Buster and decided to do a little research. In reviewing their website, I now understand why their customers are getting better performance results… it’s NOT the coating process, it’s the process mandated prior to the coating… Prop Scan! Essentially, computerized dynamic balancing of props. THIS… makes sense. NOT the prop wash they were trying to spray me with. I find it particularly disturbing when a salesman uses language without any specific education, and tries to pass it off as expertise.

    Here’s my suggestion… look into the service based on its antifouling properties, but don’t buy it based on the performance hype. The product appears to have merit and is likely the best choice for protecting stern gear.
  3. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    Dhowdodger:

    What ever happened to hopping over the side ( or, Gawd forbid, hiring a lackey) and scraping off the stuff that will most likely affect your speed/vibration?

    This is kind of like checking the air in your automobile tires prior to heading out on a trip.
    Pain in the @ss? You bet.
    The payoff? Peace of mind and knowing you did the right thing.
  4. Dhowdodger

    Dhowdodger New Member

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    The idea of adding hot sauce to antifouling ive come across before, never tried it myself thou. Understand and agree with your comments about coating props and throwing them offbalance. Have once tried spraying a thin layer of regular antifouling on the shafts worked fine for about 3 months. Thanks for the detailed reply mate,will check up on musselbusters site.

    Loren- I do hop over the side on a very regular basis, my normal berth in Dubai is in very hot very dirty water, after 4 days anything underwater not antifouled is covered in barnacles. Diving in very polluted water is great fun, 1 to 2 ft vis and some real interesting infections in the scratches you cant help but collect. Antifouling the sterngear will not stop me hopping over the side but will hopefully lessen the time im there and the amount of barnacles i have to scrape off.

    one thing that does work is bagging the props whilst at berth.
  5. wdrzal

    wdrzal Senior Member

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    That stuff looks like the same gray epoxy paint I use to spray electrical enclosures with. The stuff we use is slow drying and self leveling. It drys to a extremely hard finish that is weather resistant.Its about $20.00+ a quart.May be worth a try for someone.;)
  6. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    Dhowdodger:

    Sorry for the flippant answer re.:blithely hopping over the side...

    I had no idea of the sort of soup that your boat floats in.
    Barnacles after four days? Cooties, too?
    Sounds like you're yachting in a petrie dish!

    I am willing to bet the commercial fishermen close by have figured something so you might wander over there with a few beers to share.

    Failing that, I would contact Azko Nobel who are the big boys in the marine paint field with Awl Grip, Interlux, et al.
    You could ask for Joe Purtell who knows the yacht business and who most likely will have an answer.
  7. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    I can't recall from the brief conversation I had with them at the boat show, but I'm inclined to say this is an electro-static coat.
  8. Dhowdodger

    Dhowdodger New Member

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    Well for any one still interested in this thread propspeed clear has also been recommended to me from a few sources, produced by a kiwi company.
    and its applied by brush or roller:D .
    looks like it may be worth a go.

    http://www.propspeed.co.uk
  9. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Practical Experience

    I have used this product on several boats with good results although I applied it to my current vessel last fall and it failed. The product didn't adhere (it came off on our first trip after application) so we now find growth on all the running gear during our monthly cleaning.
    I did contact the manufacturer and they claim that the boatyard the applied it failed to follow the manufacturer's process. I watched them apply it and didn't notice anything different from prior applications. I will say this- the manufacturer also promised that they would supply me with new product AND apply it for free if I promise to also purchase my bottom paint from them. I plan to do that in the fall and will post the results at that time.
  10. Dhowdodger

    Dhowdodger New Member

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    Ok it is worth a go.
    When you used it on the other boats was there any noticable effects to speed or fuel consumption?
  11. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Slippery

    There has been no noticable difference, but the substance is sort of slippery. It is a strange brew that doesn't ever really seam to dry. I don't believe it has any anti-foul properties because barnacles will grow on the gear. The magic happens when you turn the gear. As the props and shafts spin, the growth is kind of "slung" off. I personally turn the props/shafts about once a week.
  12. Codger

    Codger YF Wisdom Dept.

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    After viewing some of the recently posted photos of yachts that have been hauled out, and seeing the veritable gardens that have grown on the hulls I did a quick search and found this thread.
    Since this thread started have there been any developments in anti-fouling applications?
    I would think that some energy has been focused on keeping things clean under the waterline in light of the recent concerns over fuel consumption.
    Looking at a potential project on the St Lawrence River and I now know why it's been suggested that I steer clear of it. Zebra mussels really are a nasty bit of business.
  13. captal

    captal New Member

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    Propspeed

    Fantastic stuff? I have run several fast yachts, some with surface drives and we used this stuff to great effect. When sat in port it allows growth but as soon as you use the props all the growth drops off. It also improved my top speed by a couple of kts which in turn give better fuel economy.
    Give it a go
  14. aboutboats

    aboutboats New Member

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    Other than the props, look at ePaint. They've got some great no copper coatings. The USCG is using it on their metal boats. Hard, slick, with antifouling properties.
  15. C4ENG

    C4ENG Senior Member

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    I have seen the same thing with prop-speed as Ken had stated. Same vessel high speed, first coating didn't last, came off in spots. Second coating and better prep work, it held well and slung off the un-wanted.
    This vessel was very sensitive to mussels on the props and would not like to come up to speed when contaminated. So in a sense you can say prop-speed did make the vessel faster, or at least come up to speed faster.
  16. rocdiver

    rocdiver Senior Member

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    Propspeed is GREAT!!!

    Propspeed_1_2.jpg
    This is 5 months after application of propspeed. From Ft Lauderdale to New England on her own bottom, then based in a very quiet marina (not much flow) on the Jersey shore. Running about once a week somewhere in New England.

    Still good coating and not a bit of growth. I LOVE it!!

    Ditto with the bowthruster!

    ROCKY
  17. VikHatBer

    VikHatBer New Member

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    Micron 44? I know it's illegal nowadays but we didn't have to repaint our bottom for 4 years, no joke. You used to still be able to buy it in Nassau until a couple years ago, but even they don't sell it anymore. A buddy of mine gave me a gallon of 100% liquid tin (supposedly very rare). He uses it to paint the bottom of his 54' Hatteras sport fish. You mix it 1/10 with paint and it acts in place of the copper-heavy Micron 44. In my experience, this made little to no difference as our Viking was recently hauled and the paint looks much worse after 2 years than nearly 5 years (2000-2005) of Micron 44.

    When will the government leave us alone?
  18. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    You might be interested to read the info here.

    http://www.yachtpaint.com/Images/15_26807.pdf

    There are also a couple of other websites shown in that where there is further info.

    There is pretty much a worldwide ban on TBT Antifoulings as they have been proven to have quite an impact on the environment.
  19. VikHatBer

    VikHatBer New Member

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    So where can you still get the good stuff?
  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    If you are asking where you can get Hi TBT ( Now illegal in most of the world) anti fouling you are asking the wrong guy.

    If you want something that will do the job, try this:

    www.yachtpaint.com/Images/15_21868.pdf