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Real nice Roamer.. Only $105,000

Discussion in 'Chris Craft Roamer Yacht' started by homer1958, Jan 15, 2011.

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  1. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    Trash Romaer steel rudders...

    Just trash those old rudders... when you pull them out you are going to see the rudder pole/shafts have deteriorated in circumfrance anyway. Make new ones out of stainless and pop a zinc in each one. Sed up the old ones and tell Kenny to make you new ones. The guy is top of the line and won't rip you off.

    Your tubes may be ok, but acid bath them and make sure to coat with bottom epoxy a few times up the shafts.

    Most old Romaer rudders bang around... just grab them and you will see probably.. rudders shoud not bang around.. but it they are seized they won't.

    Ours seized too.. it's an inherent design flaw.

    Not into Sea Rays... Roamers are way tougher and will crush a Sea Ray if it ever hit one into glass dust. Also, a Roamer with the same power will beat it in speed considerably. The only thing a Sea Ray will do is roll more (Roamers don't roll withthat nice hard chine... but a Sea Ray likely hits a head on short chop Sea more smoothly.. can't have it all.
  2. Jim Reed

    Jim Reed Member

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    My Rudders don't bang around or leak. They are just seized and really it's only the port one. The starboard one is fine. I agree with you though, anything that is over 40 years old should be replaced. Stainless Steel sounds like the material of choice.
  3. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Design flaw or inadequate maintenance? Did your original logs receive a few shots of grease at least once at the beginning of each season?

    Would you agree that stainless has known crevice corrosion potential, particularly in stagnant water environments like a rudder log, whereas plain steel doesn't?

    Do you disagree with the galvanic series that suggest SS creates a better battery in close proximity to aluminum than plain steel?

    I like shiny stainless as much as the next guy. But I believe CC's original material choice makes more sense.
  4. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    OK, you are right I am wrong!

    I can't believe Chris Craft used stainless screws to put in their rubrails.. I mean steel would have been a better choice, particularlry in salt water. If anyone tried to tried them out to paint their Roamer they could actually paint right over the rub rails instead to avoid the extra work because the screws would be perfectly rusted and seized... just another great way to cut down on maintenance and cost. I mean everyone buys Roamers to save money right?

    I told you what was suggested w/ epoxy barriers OK, I stick with that. Do what you want, it's your boat.. make aluminum rudders then and avoid the problem altogether, but don't try to turn too quickly under power.

    Homer
  5. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    No need to get your panties in a wad, Homer. If my rubrails were ever fully immersed in sea water for extended periods of time, galvanic wasting and crevice corrosion would be the least of my concerns. :p

    Of course, everybody does what they want on their own boat and everyone is entitled to an opinion. But that doesn't change the fundamental nature of dissimilar metals, the implications of the galvanic series, or peculiar properties of individual alloys. Whether it's 40 years old or 400, as long as the shaft isn't excessively worn, and that doesn't appear to be the case, there's no compelling reason beyond personal preference for replacing them. But a personal preference for stainless does not indicate a design flaw on the manufacturer's part.

    Your suggestion that aluminum rudders in aluminum logs would avoid the problem is funny, since it's AlO3 that fills up the interstitial space. I understand you were being farcical, but your "solution" would actually create more aluminum oxide in less time. lol

    At any rate, it will be interesting to see what Jim's sticky rudder looks like when he pulls it.

    Keep us posted, Jim!
  6. bolsado

    bolsado Member

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    Rudder Help - me too

    After all the transporting work, the Roamer is home sitting under a california sky waitng for the americas cup races to start this summer.

    First roamer repair needed is rudders. The outfit that removed my rudders independently for shipment decieded to cut one due some mushrooming on top of rudder post ( note sure why they couldnt grind it vs going through the effort to. This also might be a clue some thing else is up.

    What r the suggestions from here should,

    1) buy all new rudders/shafts or just shafts

    2) how should prep the through hull

    3) what r the liner options mentoned in the above thread

    thnaks for the help

    Attached Files:

  7. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    Here is what you do..

    Take one old rudder and ship it to Kenny at East Coast welding to make you two new ones... won't cost much... make them in stainless. Make sure you clean-out old tubes with acid bath. Neutralize with baking soda after done. Immediately when dry hit with Interlux bottom epoxy inside tubes. Be careful when taking of bronze nuts not to strip aluminum tube threads so make sure to douche with WD-40 overnight or so if they are still on. I would re-make the nuts in stainless if you can.

    Don't listen to people who don't know what they are talking about on this site (and there are a few) and don't make them again in steel. The shaft rusts and gets skinnier over time and they start banging around, particularly in salt environment. Clean grease fittings well and repack with boat trailer grease and off you go. Make sure to zinc the rudder unlike Chris did back then.

    Kenny's number is 252-305-5032
    Homer
  8. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    Trust homer1958's opinion or trust the scientifically determined galvanic series and do some regular maintenance (i.e. a shot of grease to the rudders). It's your call. lol

    My reading of the galvanic series says steel's best, stainless is prettier but not as compatible with aluminum, and some kinds of stainless will make a better battery out of your boat than others. Don't even think about using bronze rudders because they'd make an even better battery than SS.

    But no matter what rudder material you decide to go with, you must give the shafts a shot of grease every year or so. Otherwise, you will experience the sort of trouble homer1958 experienced on his boat. Set up the grease fittings so you can get to them easily.

    Don't use a liner, and don't let the boat be a dock queen. When the rudders turn in the original configuration, they can act directly on any corrosion that fills the space between the rudder and log. This has the effect of scrubbing and flushing out corrosion, which, coupled with a yearly shot of grease, will provide long life to your rudders.

    If you put in a liner, aluminum oxide will form between the log and the liner and the liner will compress down on the rudder shaft all the way around. The aluminum oxide molecule takes up roughly 21x as much space as 2 aluminum atoms and 3 oxygen atoms, which is why you'll find blisters with lots of white, fluffy powder in them but only a little tiny point of actual aluminum wasted inside. The Al2O3 between the liner and log will be "protected" from the turning shaft by the liner and it will build up over time, putting a uniform squeeze on the rudder shafts and eventually locking them up. Once that happens, and it might take a few years, no amount of grease will get the rudder turning again.

    So:
    * steel's best for the aluminum
    * stainless is prettier than steel but makes a better battery out of your hull than steel
    * liners are not best
    * grease is your friend, regardless of the rudder material you use.
  9. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    To know it all...

    "Know it all," I've grown up around Roamers and have been on more Roamers than you have seen pictures of. I have been to the factory on and on.
    Also have taken one apart from beginning to end. Also speak with Jim Wick from time to time who knows far more about Roamers than you know about saving pennies. You probably should get a boat that is in line with your personality and regular financial commentaries. May I suggest a new Bayliner. This would end your metal concerns altogether while properly aligning your social status... you know, might as well join the composite elite.

    Of course you know more about rudders than Marinette as well who also uses stainless rudders. The are smart enough to know that steel rudder posts rust over time, seize more easily and stainless is close enough on the metallic compatibility chart to not bother aluminum as long as you zinc the rudder and protect the shaft housing as well.

    I saw your rudder job, they looked like something you made in you basement on an anvil with an old hammer to save 5 cents... each penny does count. If you have to talk about pennies all the time, maybe you should throw some in your wet bilge and get it over with.

    Also, have you isolated your shafts with PSS flex discs if you are so worried about electrolysis? I doubt it as they cost a couple of dollars. Maybe some electric can conduct through your shafts into your engines and corrode the rings.

    May I suggest you get this over with if you do not prefer the pennies in the bilge idea, after all pennies are negotiable instruments. Perhaps get solid steel props and steel shafts if you can find them. If not, surely you can have them custom made.

    Here is some more information from some experts who don't know what they are talking about either. Have you considered teaching seminars to all these folks who build them who don't know what they are talking about?

    Set all captains straight will ya skipper....

    http://www.jefa.com/install/electro.htm

    http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Marinette_Aluminum_Boat_Maintenance/Why_a_Marinette
  10. q240z

    q240z New Member

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    homer1958, for all your yapping, I notice you have no comments about how horribly mistaken the galvanic series is. The fact of the matter is that you and your old man's lack of maintenance is what ruined your old rudders.

    You don't seem to be able to discuss issues, preferring instead to make personal attacks. That's fine. This forum's been a ghost town for a while. From discussions I've had with former contributors, it's people like you who drive them away.

    With this, I join them. Congratulations on winning your fiefdom, little man.

    Adios, everybody else.
  11. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    Not appreciated "Know it all"

    Dear Know it all.

    Your behavior on this forum is unacceptable if I may use a kind word.

    First, I do not appreciate your commentary of "Old Man." He passed a year ago with full military honors including Arlington Fly-Over had rank and honor as well as an extraordinary background including Geortown Law, POW, Lt. Col, B-24 pilot and passed three bars in one year. Anyone with some class, which you display a lot of.... "Low," certainly would not defame another's father under any circumstances particularly someone recently departed you did not even know.

    We would be delighted it it if you sold your Roamer to someone with more semblance of dignity and refinement. Your constant all knowing argumentative approach with everyone about everything gets old. Furthermore, you always are talking money. If you can't afford it, please be respectful of others and the brand... either fasten your festering gob or sell it to someone who can.

    Also, most of what I have written is well-documented either by proven expert text or people such as Jim Wick who worked at the Holland plant. From time to time you share information that is not correct and frankly, nobody needs to read questionable half-baked advise. You are Neaveau Roamerite and your experience is comparatively marginal at best.

    If you continue to feel obligated to badger me or others with Garbonia, we would prefer you sail your way. I'm surprised you own a powerboat, wind is free. Roamer sorts are a certain breed, if you can't interface decently and respectfully, please sail off.

    "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing,"... exactly what you have.
  12. Jim Reed

    Jim Reed Member

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    Bye Q240Z Homers Idea of you buying a Bayliner seems right on.
  13. Laurence

    Laurence Senior Member

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    Humor not Homer

    For God's sake, lighten up Ya'll ! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and maintain their own boat anyway they see fit. This forum is supposed to be helpful for a recreational hobby.
  14. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    I agree

    We agree Laurence.

    However, you don't cast derisive names on anyone's deceased father and certainly don't call a person "little man." A Bayliner would be a suitable match indeed. I have no time for this --- ----.

    Homer
  15. midwingcrisis

    midwingcrisis New Member

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    Hello All,

    As my very 1st public post on this forum, I am hoping to gain as much knowledge to apply to my upcoming overhaul and restoration of my 67 41' Regal Steel # 0008. I have read a lot on here and have gained to date quality ideas from many. Really fond though of keeping the outside lines and updated interior. 427's will depart and am considering Cummins 370 BTA's. This is my 1st boat and look forward.

    I will post some pix later, project has not gone anywhere yet. I appreciate all who help!

    Cheers for now
  16. Jim Reed

    Jim Reed Member

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    Welcome Aboard as you can tell, we all love our Roamers and yours sounds like a beauty. Looking forward to seeing all the pictures.
  17. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    Cool

    The 1967 Roamer is the first year of the 41 I think. Hull number 1 is located in Maryland near Annapolis at Anchor Yacht Basin. (410-269-6674)
    The name of the boat is ROAMER. The original name was Winery. It cost over 80,000 new and was loaded. The second owner has done a so so job, but not great. I think it was for sale.

    I gutted my interior and did an interesting job. It's a much bigger effort than you can imagine, so be careful. If I wanted to keep it simple on the 41, I would make a large sideways doublewide berth in the bow and just re-veneer the rest and have it professionally sprayed.

    Make sure to have the hull surveyed, you can get into a real challenge with steel. If it is good, you have a real tank on your hands... great boat to be in in challenging waters. The winner of all Sea Chicken bets :)

    Be more than glad to share the good and the bad for parts and refurbish ideas.

    For example, the hot item now for synthetic flooring is Amtico. It looks virtually real and is tough as nails. I am highly impressed with it and it is hard to tell it is not real decking. Even Hatteras is using it now. http://www.amtico.com/pages/RangeInfo.aspx?id=5107&linkidentifier=id&itemid=5107

    The hot new paint is Alexeal.. if you have not already sprayed, consider using it instead of Awlgrip.

    If you need an electrician or woodwork I have found the best FINALLY, but it depends where you are. The Nagshaed area is full of top skill looking for work since the Sportfish industry virtually collapsed. There are some terrific skilled craftspeople around. If you want to get ripped-off.. Maryland is probably your best place :)

    Roamer 38 aluminum with twin Yanmar 370's well geared will hit 37-38 MPH. Your boat can easily take twin 500's w/ 4 blades. I would not put less than 420 diesel turbo-power in that boat if you can swing it.

    Diesel conversion is really hard and really expensive.. if you do it make sure your hull is in great shape first.

    For exact knowledge on your boat, contact Jim Wick at Chris Parts.. other than Dick Avery and Earl Shilson, he is the most knowledgeable in the world.
    He can be reached here

    http://www.chrisparts.com/ (Jim Wick)
    http://www.marine-sales.com/ (Earl Sthilson)
    http://www.polishedtreasures.com/ Chrome.. triple plate, but Don can be high -strung but very good work. A lot of them cheat he does not.. triple plates

    Get rid of the old galvanized tanks! Rust buckets... SP Tanks in Jersey is good. Make sure to use 5083 or 5086... not 5052
    www.sptanks.com

    For all the original paperwork on your boat contact Mariners Museum, they have the Chris Craft archives.
    http://www.marinersmuseum.org/


    For deals on shafts, engines or just about anything mechanical.. call Steve Lynch. Great guy, super smart and knows his stuff... fair/wholesale pricing. totally trustworthy.

    What are you doing with your old engines?

    Welcome Aboard,

    HOMER
  18. Shangri-La

    Shangri-La Senior Member

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    I replaced one of my steel rudders last year on my 1960 steel hull Roamer. There are no grease fittings on those tubs. I replaced it with a steel rudder made in a local machine shop. The thing lasted 50 years before it needed to be replaced. I really don't care if someone 50 years from now has to replace it again. It won't be my problem then.
  19. homer1958

    homer1958 Member

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    True...

    Roamers live longer than people.. that's why the 41-27 foot range are hard to find.. peoeple are realizing this.. plus the size can be manged by two people.. hence why there are so few available perhaps?

    But also true is the seizing issue with many aluminum Roamers with steel rudders. Also, not maintaining the grease fittings will increase the liklihood of the issue. Aluminum Roamers in salt water are more likely to seize as well. It's not uncommon at all. What happens is the steel rudder shaft narrows/binds as it corrodes in the shaft the way the factory did it... simply adding a zinc to the rudder be it stainless or steel will likely do a lot to solve the problem along with seasonal lithium grease shots to the fittings. Any Roamer owners can know if they have the problem simply by grabbing the rudders and if they bang around in the housing likely the issue is there.. they should be firm, micro towed-inwards.

    I mean.. to what point of purity do we take this matter? Technically, even stainless screws in the rubrail of aluminum are not ideal. What are you going to do.. use steel or aluminum screws? That won't work.

    Titanium is the only pure solution as it is a neutral metal, but the cost would be prohibitive, so that's not an ideal solution. The realistic solution is dipping each stainless screw in "Tefgel," that's a decent alternative.
  20. goin70

    goin70 New Member

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    14 Donzi Fisherman

    Does anyone know if the Donzi 14 Fisherman is for sale? Thanks