Click for Ocean Alexander Click for Ocean Alexander Click for Llebroc Click for Apollonian Click for Lurssen

Question about 2007 47' Grand Banks

Discussion in 'Grand Banks Yacht' started by bobhorn, Sep 20, 2015.

  1. bobhorn

    bobhorn Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Kemah, TX
    One of the brokerages in our marine had an open house this past weekend and they parked this 47' Grand Banks in front of our lowly 38 footer. After almost going into shock at the price I decided to look at the listing just for fun. The listing claims a cruising speed of 23mph and top speed of 28mph. With two 500+ Cats is that possible?

    They also list a 260 gal water tank but no mention of a watermaker. Is a watermaker standard so they didn't need to list it? It also shows a 45# anchor for a 50,000+ lbs of boat. Really?

    The price is so far out of our reach it's unreal, but some of these details caught me by surprise.

    Just curious,

    Bob
  2. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,166
    Location:
    Gold Coast Australia
    Eastbay or GB Motor Yacht?
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,930
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    It sounds to me like you're looking at an East Bay? The cruise numbers sound accurate as does the anchor size for that size boat.
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,806
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Give it 6 months. If your not shopping it could be free entertainment. Overpriced is what the used cars salesman (broker) starts at a pretty boat. Reality usually comes between the used car sales guy (broker) and the owner when the first listing contract expires or the boat is not really for sale.
    Selling any boat is a game. Keep an eye on her and see if she really sells. If so, you learned a part of boat marketing. If you can, let us know what the real selling price (hard to do) was. Just don't list any names and I think that would be o k to post.
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,806
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    If you could read any reservations on my part for boat brokers, you read correctly. There are a few I have dealt with that are still in business and I can recommend them in my sleep.
    There are many I have not met and can not judge.
    There are many that give me bad dreams. I can equate them to bad lawyer jokes....
    Sharks & a good start.....


    Seller be ware..
  6. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,401
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Hey Ralph -- Let's not hijack this GB thread with broker bashing. And while I'm being disagreeable, I object to your statement that "selling any boat is a game." Not all boats come on the market overpriced and I have yet to have a listing where anyone was playing a game. For the buyer without a time frame, yes, watching the price of particular boats over a period of time may lead one to conclude the motivation of a seller. And most brokers have access to the sold boat prices. C'mon, go back to being your fun-loving poster of practical information.

    Judy
  7. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,166
    Location:
    Gold Coast Australia
    +1 Judy
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,218
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I would seriously doubt that a watermaker would be standard, and even more so that it would be so equiped without being listed. Most boats don't use them, unless they cruise areas where dockside water isn't reliable. As for it being "a game", that's just a matter of how you look at it. I consider it such, until the time comes to write the check. Then it becomes all business. Until that check is written though it should remain a game that you're ready and willing to walk away from at any time. I know that's frustrating for the brokers (sorry Judy), but it's a negotiating position. Asking prices are just that. From there it all depends on motivation, the market and negotiating skills. The last deal I was involved with I pushed an offer of 1/3 less than the ask, which we made on more than one boat. Some didn't want to negotiate at all, but the final price paid ended up being not much more than that.
  9. RER

    RER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,431
    Location:
    Newport Beach CA
    I'm curious how, if you are interested in buying a particular boat, this strategy would be beneficial to you?
  10. RER

    RER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,431
    Location:
    Newport Beach CA
    As an example, the 2007 Grand Banks 47 Heritage EU is not to be confused with your grandfather's Grand Banks.

    Yes, they are expensive.
    Yes, they are capable of speeds above 20 knots.
    No, equipment like watermakers are typically listed if they are included.
    Yes, a 45# anchor could be suitable depending on your particular requirements.
  11. bobhorn

    bobhorn Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Kemah, TX
    It is listed as Grand Banks Heritage.

    I was thinking that a 45# plow anchor is marginal on our 38' boat. But I like to sleep while at anchor.

    Another question, with 600gal of fuel, how far could you go at 23mph?

    Oh well, it's all academic for us, but thanks for all the responses.
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    6,804
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Assuming 20 knots at cruise (23 mph), about 40 gph on the Cat 567 hp, so at 90% your range would be 270 nm. I'd reduce that some for an aging factor on the engines as my numbers are new, clean hull, and new perfectly operating engines. 200-240 nm should be a more conservative range. To be conservative I'd plan on maximum legs at cruise of 200 nm. However, most people wouldn't run 10 hours at cruise in that boat but speeds ranging from 10 knots to 20 knots. At 12 knots or so, you'd use about 15 gph or 430 nm at 90%, 336 nm at 70%.
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,218
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    It's a good strategy. Falling in love with anything is expensive. There's lots of boats on the market. Everybody has their own threshold, but I don't impulse buy over $100. Beyond that I'll present an almost ridiculous (pre-doing homework) offer to set the tone of the negotiations. When it's rejected I'll begin the homework process while the seller hopefully watches his item sit, not generating interest. Then I'll come back later with a more reasonable offer and the reasons the seller should accept it (competition). From there the fun begins. For me the asking price on big ticket items from cars on up means nothing. Sellers dream of profits and buyers dream about getting something for nothing. It usually ends up somewhere in the middle unless someone falls in love.

    Olderboater's numbers look on target. The anchor sounds adequate, but you can always get something bigger and use that as a spare or a lunch hook.
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,930
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Watermakers are not standard and quite honestly for my customers on yachts 70'< I don't even recommend them unless they like to anchor for more than 2 days/nights at a time or spending 2 months or more in the Bahamas per year. You can buy lots of water just on the annual maintanence savings of not having a watermaker and not to mention the $10-12k to install one. Keep in mind you have to run them at least monthly, change flush filters, pre filters etc. etc., then you have the electricity you're paying to make the water (if hooked up to shorepower in the Bahamas).

    Also if you have a 260 gallon water tank, I'd want a 50gph watermaker. It uses the same energy as a 30 gph, it just has an extra membrane that makes 20GPH more. That way you can totally top off the water tank in 4-5 hours between islands, while you're on generator anyways.
  15. bobhorn

    bobhorn Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Kemah, TX
    I guess when I looked at the boat and the electronics I assumed you could take this boat cruising, not crossing oceans, but maybe the Gulf. Leave the marina and tell the autopilot to take you to Key West. But it doesn't even have the range for that, so I guess it's really a coastal cruiser, jump from one marina to the next.

    I brought up the watermaker because we cruised for three years on a sailboat and the first year out, water was always on my mind. We carried 150 gal but hardly ever went into a marina, generally anchoring out. So after the first year we came back and upgraded, actually bought a chart plotter and I built a watermaker, 20gph, just at $3000. It made the rest of our cruising so much more enjoyable, run the genset for an hour in the morning to charge batteries and make water. I really splurged, thinking now that we had all that water I bought a small apartment size washing machine, real luxury.

    I guess I'm still trying to wrap my head around this marina cruising as opposed to anchoring out in some secluded spot and staying as long as the diesel and beer holds out. We know two couples who are cruising on sailboats and they spend just about every night in a marina. Different strokes..........
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,930
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Slow down to hull speed, say 7 knots and you could increase your range to probably 1000 NM's.

    Take a look at 43'/44' Lagoon power cats as they might meet your needs better.

    Most of us like some luxury when we're cruising like air conditioning, being able to go out to dinner and walk to the restaurant and well things of that nature......it's called cruising not camping for a reason......and others like more of a camping experience......
  17. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,166
    Location:
    Gold Coast Australia
    What is the rush? These are good cruise boats that I would trust for longer voyagers and some rougher seas if you get caught, that's why the price, they are quality boats in comparison to the general market, as you already know.
    Absolutely agree with you, a watermaker is a must if you are going to enjoy time away.
  18. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,166
    Location:
    Gold Coast Australia
    When buying anything of value, I never make an offer until I am serious and when I do, I follow through.
    Same when selling and that is where I think your strategy falls down. If you were to make me an absolutely ridiculous offer there would be NO response at all, leaving you on the hook until the offer was reasonable and by then the deal would be well and truly gone, because you would never be taken seriously or ignored.
    That does not mean I am going to buy items close to the ask, just that I do all the research first, then offer according to the market, because my due diligence tells me where that value is. That may mean half what the seller is asking or 10% less, no matter. Experience has taught me how to best avoid "buyers remorse", and that is to know my own mind on the value.
    FWIW, with buying boats I have found that the best way to deal with the survey results is this:
    My final offer, after all the negotiations/counter offers is down to subject to sea trial and survey.
    However, I will not come back with the survey results and niggle around with minor issues. If the survey is acceptable to me, deal. If not, I withdraw.
    If the seller then wants to re-start negotiations, then we all re-consider.
  19. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    6,804
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Playing games, in my opinion, is how you loose out on the best deals. Then you end up with a less desirable boat. I don't play games negotiating any buy or sell. Either we have a deal in less than 3 days or I go on my way. Most of the time I prefer to do it in one day. I do my research and I know my maximum price. I'll try to get it for less, but I'm going to find out quickly if we can or cannot make a deal. But I'm not going to sit and watch the boat I want get sold as some kind of learning experience.
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,218
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    When a boxer steps into the ring he never leads with his knock out punch. First come the jabs to feel you out and see where your weak spot is. There are no unique or must have boats unless you have money to burn, and don't mind wasting it. Plug almost any boat under 60' in Yachtworld, and you'll have quite a few to choose from. Take each that are acceptable, figure out what it'll take to bring each up to what you want, and you have your top price for each and any of them will do. When I bought my home in 2003, houses were selling the same day they listed, and people were paying more than the listed prices. Still I said 'How about taking $15K off', and the seller agreed. I work hard for $15K, and would have felt rather foolish wasting it. When the crash came in '08/'09 that (and some additions I made) meant that my home was never worth less than I paid for it. An aweful lot of people wished they could say that. Instead they were walking away from their homes (and people were walking away from their boats). Paying retail is never "the best deal".
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015