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Quality on Azimut, Pershing and Cranchi....?

Discussion in 'Pershing Yacht' started by dino_dino, Jun 20, 2010.

  1. dino_dino

    dino_dino New Member

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    Hello all

    Well, as some of you know I am seeking around for my new boat and am looking at Princess/Viking boats now.
    I find them well made and they do give me a warm feeling aboard.

    When I was driving around last week looking for some boats I did also have a look at some Italian made boats, like the Azimut, Cranchi and even a older Pershing.

    They are so far away from the English boats, like Princess, Sunseeker, Fairline and so. ( Well for me they are.)
    The style is more, HEY LOOK AT ME, inside and out side.
    They do feel more made to be the NR1 yacht of year ...., or is it just me?

    How are the quality of these yachts?

    Thanks for looking all
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    If you type those names into the search feature you'll get a wealth of info and opinion, especially on Azimut. No need for a new thread.
  3. goplay

    goplay Senior Member

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    I've done a lot of research on these makes, as well as others. I had visited the factories and looked at a number of their boats over several model years. I also have first hand experience with Azimuts (built at different factories depending on the size). My two cents:

    Cranchi is a reasonable build for that size boat. Decent value.

    Pershing has some good points and some poor points. The 62 that they used to build was a nice boat. The new 72 has very poor range and non-existant storage, even in the galley. Surprisingly, there are no air-water separaters for the engine room air intakes... and they are outboard. I would buy a Pershing over a Sunseeker Predator however.

    Azimut, is much better in late model years than older models. It is almost night and day from about 2006 onwards. I would not get an older model, but would buy something newer. One complaint is they will place systems where it is hard to maintain. Most Euro boats are like that. If you are buying used, just make sure it was properly maintained. I've taken a 62' and 85' Azimut in fairly rough waters (35kn+ winds, 12'+ cresting seas) with confidence.
  4. dino_dino

    dino_dino New Member

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    Hello

    Thanks for the information.
    Nice to hear they have improved.
    Can I ask why you will go for a Pershing over a Sunseeker Predator?
    More space on the Pershing? Quality?
  5. goplay

    goplay Senior Member

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    For the vintage of Pershing of the 62 or 55 (2007?) they were well sorted out without major compromises. From the new 72 and 64, they made some significant compromises to gain interior volume. Side decks got very narrow, storage space went way down. Fuel capacity got even lower. They even did away with rub rails on the swim platform for appearances. Some systems (like the electric elevating passarelle-swim ladder combo that is generally submerged in salt water) became too complex. They do look really nice, I have to admit.

    Predators in the 2007 vintage had the narrow side decks, inconsistent interior finishing, so-so gel coat. However, I do think the recent models have improved.

    An alternative to consider are the Princess sport cruisers. The Azimut 62S I felt was the better of the S-series but it had some inherent space limitations. I had one as did a couple of friends and they were easy and inexpensive to operate.
  6. dino_dino

    dino_dino New Member

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    Thanks for the information:)
  7. MaxPower

    MaxPower Senior Member

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    Nothing out there will do Pershing speeds. Not that I'm aware of.

    The Pershing 80 does 54 knots flat out with a cruise of 48 knots.

    At 48 knots, range is about 320 nm.
  8. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    I have helmed an old 2002 Pershing 43 in force 6 seas in 2007 in a trip from Spain to Croatia.
    Versus a Sunseeker or Princess and Fairline this boat helmed beatifully crusing at an average of 25 knots. The 43 is a shaft line version.
    In a Princess V50 we had the galley line cabinets fall down in a short Force 4 to 5 cross seas. And the Sunseeker we could never manage more to 20 knots minimum planning speed in a Force 5 head sea.
    For the Azimut S range I just spoke to an owner with a 43 S this past weekend and he said if it was not for the pain of Volvo IPS electronics which sometimes want a vacation this boat has been problem free for 3 years plus.

    I'd say the best production Britsh boat is a Fairline. The Sunseeker is IMO like a lady with a lot of make up.... Princess has a Bernard Olenski hull like Fairline but is usually a bit wider and there fitting in all departments leave a bit to be desired. Altough since the French Company took over in the last 2 years they are improving a lot....
  9. vivariva

    vivariva Senior Member

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    A Pershing 52 owner (friend) took his boat around the Dodecanese (Eastern Aegean Greek Islands) and to Mykonos as well last summer and told me the following:

    At high speeds, naturally, the ride is harsh due to continuous pounding and constantly "hanging on to something" proves to be a tiring ordeal, the local dealer's inability to provide good service for the Arneson drives and high fuel consumption are the minuses encountered. However, they like the quality in the interior and the engines perform well.

    It is important to consider on what kind of sea the boat would be used, near the coastline or are you looking at longer passage making? For heavier seas, the Pershing behaves differently than a Fairline, since it is lighter and not built for displacement speeds (wider and flatter). I remember the owner and his family talking about how flat the underwater hull design of the Pershing was and it made them a bit worried in the heavy seas. It is a boat capable for achieving a 50+ kn speed. Obviously a Fairline will be built differently.

    By quality, do you mean the build in general? The brands mentioned have quality control systems in the yards, however, the materials used in the small parts (plumbing seals, shaft/prop bearings etc.) might be the difference in the long-term. The woodwork for Fairline is in my opinion nicely done (judging from a member's previous posts in YF) for example...

    Cheers, Vivariva
  10. dino_dino

    dino_dino New Member

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    Hi and thanks for the good information.
    Hehe, " A lady with a lot of makeup". Hmm, interesting, but maybe expensive to....:rolleyes: :D

    Well, I am going to use the boat on a Lake, so the heavy sea is not a problem for me. Strong wind here, but not the waves.
    Quality? Well, I do mean hull, electronics, mechanical, wood, leather, sound proofing and operation/helm of the boat.

    I once was told that Pershing are making "show" boats, style of the year and so, but that the quality are not there. That the wood are thin, not solid and so one.
    Is that so?
  11. dino_dino

    dino_dino New Member

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    Forgot.....For me it is a Princess V42 that are going to be my boat.
    Yes, a Pershing are great to look at, but it was the quality feeling and what I was told that made me look for a Fairline, Sunseeker or Princess.
  12. MaxPower

    MaxPower Senior Member

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    At Sea ... Aahhh ...
    there's a basic difference between the likes of ferretti/princess/xyz and a boat like the pershing ...

    ferretti/princess/xyz are akin to luxury on the water, a home away from home. they'll will top out at approx. 32-33 knots and could comfortably cruise between 24-28 knots.

    the pershing on the other hand, is a lamborghini on the water ... it shrinks maps ... exceedingly well. it is still luxuriously appointed & built very well, but the focus if different from the others. cruise is 48 knots with 54 knot flat out ... a whole different ball game. and yes, it does consume fuel at startling rates ... but then where do you think you get the power from?
  13. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    This is all not true, and in this post I see lack of experience in the usage of Surface drives from your friend which means that you have to play a bit with the trim.

    A Pershing 52 has a 20 degrees dead rise aft and about 45 degrees to fore. This is one of the most deep vee Pershing ever made. To make an example a Fairline 52 Targa has 18 degrees aft and 40 degrees to fore. Draft is 1.09m.

    Pershing weight is 21.5 tons dry with MAN 800hp and 23 tons with MAN 1050hp. Fully loaded you go to over 25 tons with both.

    Fairline 52 Targa GT is 16 tons dry and 19 tons loaded with Volvo D12 800hp.

    I have helmed, rode the 52 and also the old 54, this last IMO the best Pershing ever built. The 52 I was as a guest in pretty flat conditions and is a bit complicated to trim. The 54 on the other hand is so easy to drive and so forgiving. The 54 has 15 degrees deadrise aft but is a super boat.
    Strangely the 52 was born as a surface drive boat, while the 54 was born as a shaft boat in Genoa 1995.

    As for quality I think Pershing is better in all departments to all British builds the resin department building its boats with Scrimp since 1998, and there stringers are usually more beefy (double the size) to a Fairline which has to be the case considering the speeds a Pershing reaches. Pershing also paints the dark colors with an AwlGrip like paint and a navy blue will be the same after 10 years, unlike the gel of other builders which after a couple years will be fading. Okay you pay also for this as the cost is about double for a Pershing.

    I used to work as a broker when I sold the 54 back in 2004, and many med based surveyors used to speak so well of them that I could not agree more when I tested one myself. For the review the 54 had four hull surveys and the only problem was the engine air intakes which on certain beam seas can put some salt water to the engine room unless you make the modification.


    The V42 is a great boat and economic to run with stern drives. If you have the cash go for the latest mk.III version with hard top. To my knowledge it is not available with IPS, but you can have stern drive joystick. Similar to IPS but not as good. Princess has so far not produced any IPS boat. In that price range or a bit cheaper I would also look at the Prestige 42S which is also available with an aft patio door, or the Sessa C43.
  14. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Surely a Fairline, Sunseeker or Princess dealer, salesman is never going to tell that another brand is better to his...:eek:
  15. dino_dino

    dino_dino New Member

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    Thanks for the good information:)

    Well, yes, the idea of Lamborghini on water is great:cool: , but it does cost. Same as the road version, faster, more power and so also means more money out the window, regarding the fuel bill and also service cost.
    Information, yeah, a Princess dealer is not talking so much about other makers.

    My budget can get me a a soft top V42 or even a V50, but not the new 09 model with hard top.
    So, a Pershing will be even older, for the same money I guess I will end up with a 02-03 model from them.
    That is why I am asking so much about quality.

    The Pershings do look great, just like a Lamborghini, the cost is one thing regarding the fuel bill, but the service repair is not so easy to live with.

    But, from what I read here, the build quality is good. Neck on neck or even better than a Princess or so.

    Thanks for good info:)
  16. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Ever tried to get service done to or parts for a Lamborghini? Own one and you also need something that can be driven every day.
  17. MaxPower

    MaxPower Senior Member

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    Actually I own a Lamborghini Superleggera mate. Fantastic car. It's my daily drive.

    And here where I live, the service does not get any better ... it's as good as it gets ... absolutely top notch ...

    As for parts, it has never been an issue. And I track the car 4-5 times a month.
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Here in the US you could get it serviced (one each) in Manhattan, Orlando, Miami, Chicago and California (not sure about any others, but there can't be many). Not to say they aren't beautiful cars and fun to drive, but owning one is a different situation than with a Lexus, etc. I drive 100 miles plus a day, and my service station is around the corner from my house. The services for your car is 80 miles away in the other direction. And if I don't like them, it's 1100 miles to the next. Point is that exotics are fine for certain people, but most people need to be concerned about where they will have their toys serviced. When it costs you $1,500 to get your boat to where it can be serviced and another $1,500 to get it back that can be a big nut to put on top of the service cost.
  19. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Surely if you can afford a 300,000 US$ car, 1500 is not a lot of cash for you.

    Pershing with MAN engines and Arneson Surface drives is surely more expensive to service to a Volvo powered Princess or Fairline. This is what most UK builds use. Altough I must admit if I can afford such a boat I prefare MAN engines to a Volvo. Service though will be three times as much altoug with a longer after 100 engine hour interval versus the yearly oil change of a Volvo or after 50eh.
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    But 300K US doesn't buy much of a boat. For the people who can make the monthly payments on those spending an extra $3K on a repair often wipes out their vacation plans. Personally, I don't even know a mechanic qualified to work on Arnesons around here and I'm sure the same goes for many other places.