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Proteksan-Turquoise YOGI superyacht sinking investigation

Discussion in 'Turquoise Yacht' started by Marmot, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I fail to see the point of the repeated references to regulations, flag, etc. In the end, it all comes down to the captain and his crew. Obviously flag, class and regs impact design, build and equipment but with all the questions about speed and how the crew managed the issues these bureaucratic issues become irrelevant.

    There seem to be a growing trend to hide behind bureaucracy these days, whether you are at the helm of a 50 footer, 200 footer or the biggest superpower on the planet, the buck stops there
  2. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Unless you have had training and experience as an officer onboard a large, professionally operated vessel in ocean service it is unlikely that you would see the point.

    It is like a private pilot not quite seeing the point of air carrier training and operating procedures.



    Fundamentally, you are correct in that appraisal but in the larger context of professional operations unless the crew is trained and under the leadership of competent officers who operate within a disciplined structure and are capable of creating a crew culture, things fall apart very quickly. Without training and leadership a crew dissolves into a collection of individuals who will freelance a solution to what they personally determine requires attention or they may do nothing.

    Without a crew no vessel is seaworthy.
  3. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I see the point of training and procedures but most of it has to come from the master, officers and operator of the vessel

    If someone needs some bureaucrat to tell them bilge alarms have to be tested regularly, of not to run the engines at 100% load for hours, to monitor water flow and temps, etc etc they have no business being there. The focus should be on the master training and experience, not the bureaucrats who write rules and report to cover their behinds
  4. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    So who is holding the lens?

    The reason you can't "see it" is because you are looking through an entirely different lens. I don't have the time or inclination to write a book but will just refer you back to my comment about how a private pilot may not fully comprehend the culture and regime under which an airline pilot operates.

    The comparitive accident rates reflect what you don't see or understand.
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    In this situation, it looks like the lens shattered a long time ago and nobody is picking up the pieces.
  6. Trafalgar

    Trafalgar New Member

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    Yacht industry previous total loss

    I tried to collect more informations about any previous total loss in the yachting industry
    I heard about Land's End total loss In Corsica, a Britanny flag registred yacht
    but i can't find any MAIB report.
    Hope to find help here
  7. Jack Eisenbahn

    Jack Eisenbahn New Member

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    Here's a link to an article in Le Monde (in French , for most of us here unfortunately) dating back to May 2012 that may lead to some possible explanation.
    The reasons are not technical, and would give a field day to the conspiration theorists...
    (Et le yacht de Stéphane Courbit sombra...)
    In short, the owner (a french mogul involved in many different activities, from TV entertainment to power distribution and to on-line gambling...) got himself in sort of a complicated financial situation.
    There is a line saying something to the extent "Insurances can cover debts" so maybe this could actually have been good news for him.
    The article goes on by outlining his close relationship with the political powers, lending credibility to the fact that the enquiry may not have been entirely independant and objective.
    We may continue to speculate on technical causes, but maybe it is not that complicated!
    FWIW!
  8. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    While I most certainly do not believe there was any intent on the part of the crew to sink the boat and can't for a moment imagine they would create a "situation" in that location, at that time, in that weather, in that way. I strongly believe that the technical issues were way down the list of reasons that boat sank.

    I don't think that crew had enough sense or experience among them to create a believable scenario that might lead to a sinking. I do strongly believe that they didn't have enough sense or experience to prevent what should have been nothing more than a costly inconvenience from turning into a sinking.

    I think that is what is such an affront to the French maritime authorities and should be a huge red flag to charter brokers.
  9. Trafalgar

    Trafalgar New Member

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    yacht accidents

    A nice link to a long series of yacht accidents most of them with Red Ensign MCA flags

    Yacht Accident Stories

    I am looking to the MAIB reports to complete my university works without any success, do you where it is possible to find them ?
  10. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Some of these French moguls are questionable people (meaning questions surround them... you know the laws in France are strict about saying something negative about someone)... remember the owner of Couach, Fabrice Vial, was killed by a sniper 12 August 2011. Never heard anything what happened or what it was about. The Le Monde article basically indicates Stéphane Courbit the owner of Yogi was questionable too.

    But I really don't think the who owned it has anything to do with the sinking other than whomsoever hired a questionable crew.
  11. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

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    I do not get the progression. So, they got rid of their engines (by malfunction, frying'em, or whatever), okay, they still had master power up to the moment of bailing. Then they got some aft compartments partially flooded (beach clubs), meh, but ship is still holding upright (as Marmot correctly pointed out earlier), and there's a lot more watertight doors to go still.

    By far not a flotsam yet. And the situation seems stable enough, even if not pleasant. There aint that much of a killer weather either - we can see that.

    Then the crew just walks around for 7 hours donning life wests and trying to find ship logs until Jesus comes down from heavens and personally kicks the boat till it goes down? or what?
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Maybe the compartment to get to the engne room to start the pumps was flooded and by opening the engine room door, it would then flood the engine room.....who knows....it seems like they were in-experienced and instead of focusing on working to save the ship, they focused on getting off of it.
  13. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

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    The reason you can't seal back a watertight door is usually water pressure - does not correspond with slow-sinking-over-many-hours scenario. I can't for the love of me fathom inexperienced enough to leave open a door which you clearly see is a water ingress point.

    Simply put, how do I sink a ship so slowly if, say, I try?
  14. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    This is why sliding doors are used in many well built vessels.
  15. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

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    Well that's beyond the point; if the water ingress is powerful enough to prevent crew from sealing watertight doors surely sinking would take somewhat less then 7 hours?
    if it's not, is it then within the realm of possibility for crew, no matter how bad, to just watch the leak for 7 hours without for once thinking "hmm, we should maybe try to seal watertight doors, possibly try to get some pumps working, and stuff like that"?

    I just looked over some major sinkings, and it looks like Yogi is well set for a record: many a much bigger / more rugged ships sank way faster.
  16. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Maybe it was the missing logbook that kept the boat afloat for so long!
  17. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

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    As befits a proper Logbook, it stood strong till the end and went down with the ship! :mad:
  18. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Maybe it was meant to sink, but just would not go down as fast as a crew member/s wanted.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    What I was trying to say is, maybe and most likely the emergency bilge pump valving was located in the Engine room. The engine room was most likely dry as the generator stayed running. Maybe the compartment outside of the engine room door was flooded, keeping the engine room door pinned shut, and making it un-accessable for the crew to run the pumps.
  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    On a vessel like YOGI there should be a third bilge/fire pump located outside the main machinery space and powered from an alternate power source which is normally the emergency Genset.

    This should mean that even if the engine room is completely flooded and main electrical power lost the emergency S/t Bd will be supplied by the alternate supply which needs to be above the weather deck.

    The emergency S/t Bd will also supply other important consumers such as 1 fuel transfer pump , 1 steering gear system, 1 HP Air comp if Air Start used, lighting , Watertightdoors, sliding or power operated doors in escape routes, LSA launch power if required etc