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Proteksan-Turquoise YOGI superyacht sinking investigation

Discussion in 'Turquoise Yacht' started by Marmot, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I forgot to add that the bikge valves should also be operable from outside the main machinery space.

    It is my practice when sailing to have the main and emergency pumps set to bilge service that way in an emergency we can have as much dewatering as possible straight away.
  2. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    When the zombies are massing at the back door, the knowledgable engineer goes in and out the front door.
  3. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Remind me next time I build a boat to be sure to have the yard install a bunch of thru hull fittings to the bilge bottoms capped on the outside in every compartment so if there is flooding and the crew cannot get the pumps to work right or access the from the inside they can open the caps from the outside to let the water drain out of the fittings naturally. With redundancy in each compartment so if one gets plugged we can still drain through the spare.

    Oh, and add a couple capped from the outside vents in each compartment to let so we can get enough airflow so they they drain quicker.
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Class might have an issue with all those extra penetrations.
  5. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Not if its French...
  6. MountainGuy

    MountainGuy Member

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    This thread has now some 185 posts, but there is (still) no consensus on what are the reasons for the loss of Yogi. If I understand it right the official report does qualify as "official report" but is not believed to show the "real" story.

    As I'm no expert, I'v asked myself if anyone is able to put down a summary of undoubted hard facts as far as known?
  7. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    If we are to use the commonly accepted definitions of competence and seaworthiness, it is a fact that an incompetent crew left port and, over an extended period, watched their vessel sink beneath them.

    The details will probably never be revealed by the crew or the group that is posing as a maritime authority in France. Let this be a lesson to those who believe that marine safety is a real concern of some of those who sell licenses and flags.

    Where is the outrage?
  8. Trafalgar

    Trafalgar New Member

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    Hi Karo 1776

    Class ABS
    US Class
  9. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    What's curious is that no scapegoat has been named. Nothing has been learned except that nothing will change without a loss of life. And maybe you already knew that anyway.
  10. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    If a scapegoat was named, that would open the "investigators" to questions about the content, quality, and process of the so called "investigation" and its published findings.

    As it stands, there are no fingers pointing or spotlights shining on technical, operational, or training deficiencies.

    Don't ever forget the international language of diplomacy is French ... it has always been the best way to say nothing while offending the least number of people in as many words as possible.
  11. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I have often heard the following for those 3 letters :D

    A = All
    B = Below
    S = Standard
  12. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    I don't think the French are too picky about how, how many or where as long as they are all elegant penetrations.... inward.

    En français ... Je ne pense pas que les Français sont trop pointilleux sur comment, combien et où aussi longtemps qu'ils sont élégants toute pénétration
  13. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    There's a criminal investigation into the "findings"... I think this is the start to the outrage...? Cheers

    Far
  14. Felipe

    Felipe Senior Member

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    Completely agree with you. I wish the yachting media contributed more to this issue. If nothing changes after this accident, I know a bunch of people who will be remembered the day another accident happens with loss of live, and a maritime authority in particular.
  15. Jack Eisenbahn

    Jack Eisenbahn New Member

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    Exactly!

    If there is no glaring "fault", the insurer will have to cover.

    If nobody sues nobody, the insurer pays...conveniently for all parties involved!

    Simple and expeditious, and.... just in time!

    End of story!
  16. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    A comment... after some explanation for Anglos

    If you all remember Tom Perkins (original owner Maltese Falcon) was in a regatta some years ago in French waters... and the manslaughter trial where he was convicted. Basically, his larger sail boat and a small sail boat came together and the smaller one sunk. Both were aggressively sailing. Importantly, a man was killed and went down with the small boat (in sail locker below decks at time of impact). Captains of both boats and Tom were charged in the death as Tom owned and was onboard the larger boat. A criminal trial was held and Tom found guilty as were the others charged. No jail time was issued and some modest fines were paid. But the truth, justice and fraternal resolution to the matter was served and made.

    For all you that are unfamiliar with French Law and legal system it is very logical and based on a system put in place by Napoleon.
    Its fundamental is to discover the TRUTH and resolve that legal truth to the law.
    The judge is in charge of the investigation and has the fundamental of the truth and resolving that to the law and fraternal societal obligations under the law.

    To outsiders it seems very very French, meaning overly formally polite, complex, bureaucratic and arbitrary. It is this to Anglos... but French do not see it that way. It is the fraternité aspect of French law... here is a link that defines this about as well as a Anglo can understand it... which I truly believe is not possible for Anglos to understand... it is not communistic or socialist concept... but a french only concept and only the french can understand.
    Liberté, égalité, fraternité - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Here in this sinking accident there was no loss of life only property. No logs or records were recovered and the human evidence was likely either unknowledgeable due to experience and training or deceptive for to deflect blame. There is no physical evidence other than at the bottom of the sea. And, it appears to my casual observation the builder and certification of the ship built a good ship as far as current engineering state of the art practice understand. The insurer appears to have paid off without complaint from their investigation and contractual obligations. The french maritime authority has conducted an investigation and though questions remain they have issued a report.

    In french thinking:
    Everyone and everything was treated equally and elegantly under the law --- Tout le monde et tout ce qui a été traité de façon égale et avec élégance en vertu de la loi.
    Importantly, the "élégance" means as the situation allowed in a polite manner.

    I am sure the french authorities in this case look at our Anglo comments and complaints as simply:
    The english mafia squawking its conspiracy to blame or fault and find defects ... De la mafia anglaise squawking la conspiration de blâmer ou de la faute et de trouvent des défauts

    The mafia anglasie... is any two or more english speakers talking together!
  17. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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  18. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    See... in explanation... I am considered a card carrying member of the mafia anglasie... and occasionally have to apply the language and thinking of diplomacy to appease those personal fraternal relations that could result in war and the sinking of my yacht addiction! Therefore...

    See... it works!

    FYI
    The French legal system also gave the world the guillotine and Devil's Island...

    Even in the time of the TERROR of the Revolution everything was conducted according to the legal, formal, bureaucratic and French way... no one was ever guillotined outside the law or impolitely. In the single case where the apprentice executioner disrespected the proceedings by slapping a gentle lady's head to see if would react... he received 6 months hard time and the executioner was nearly jailed for letting it happen! The reason the head was displayed to the crowd was to show they had executed the right person concluding the proceedings before the next... it was not a blood rite under the law but an identification and quality check. I should mention the executioner throughout the Revolution was the very man King Louis appointed to the post. And, why Louis adopted the guillotine in the first place was to provide a humane, painless and egalitarian means of execution to replace the disparity of the sword for nobles and the wheel for the rest.

    I suppose that investigation is also being conducted properly French too... besides "BBC News" is considered a part of the mafia anglasie!
  19. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Yeah, I guess if you are going to murder someone for having the temerity to be be born into the wrong family you might as well be polite about it. There is nothing quite as eagalitarian as making sure all in the "wrong" group are butchered with equal dispatch and civility.
  20. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Although you seem very patronising in regards to the “Anglos” way of understanding I still enjoy your “elegant” and rather bombastic posts.
    They are quite amusing.

    To make a statement that the French legal system:
    “The judge is in charge of the investigation and has the fundamental of the truth and resolving that to the law and fraternal societal obligations under the law”
    As well as this ridiculous quote:
    “Even in the time of the TERROR of the Revolution everything was conducted according to the legal, formal, bureaucratic and French way... no one was ever guillotined outside the law or impolitely.”

    Monsieur, you are casting your net over both a wide area, but also over a few hundred years.
    There is NO legal system in the world that could claim to have achieved the above quotes.
    The “Reign of Terror” during the revolution saw many executions based on greed, corruption and political expedience. The fact that a Judge sentenced the victim does not mean it was just!
    To say ALL executions were within the law is to assume the JUDGE was beyond reproach.

    You obviously understand the French legal system (certainly more than I do) but you are not addressing the weakness in the system.
    Even if a modern day Judge is completely dedicated and seeks the “Truth” as you say, the French way means that the judges and magistrates often find themselves isolated and lack the resources to properly investigate the case before them.

    In this situation the Yogi’s owner has all the money to swing the “truth” as he wishes, whilst the Judge is reliant on a very small budget. This is hardly a level playing field. No surprise at the outcome given the scenario.