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Proteksan & Turquoise Superyacht "Yogi" Sinks!

Discussion in 'Turquoise Yacht' started by discokachina, Feb 17, 2012.

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  1. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    8 seems like a very light crew for a yacht of this size. It is also interesting to note that the lights were still lit during the rescue- this would lead me to believe that the flooding was not in the engine room.
  2. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I agree 8 is a light crew for this yacht for anything other than moving it from one port to another.

    Vessels such as this which really are built to MCA LY2 Standards should be able to survive one compartment flooding hence the requirement to have water tight doors separating the water tight sections below the weather deck where there are openings. The bulkheads should also be fully welded all the way to the underside of the maindeck which is probably the weatherdeck on this vessel anyway.

    Here is an extract from UK MCA MSN 1792.

    11.3.1 The watertight bulkheads of the vessel should be so arranged that minor hull damage that results in the free flooding of any one compartment, will cause the vessel to float at a waterline which, at any point, is not less than 75mm below the weather deck, freeboard
    deck, or bulkhead deck if not concurrent.


    All cable and pipe penetrations should be glanded and there should also be remote controlled bulkhead valves on pipes that pass through such as sewage and grey water lines that could allow water to pass from one compartment to another.

    There is also a requirement to have an emergency Fire/Bilge Pump mounted outside the main machinery space.

    Most Classification Societies will also require a direct bilge suction connected to the largest capacity pump in the Engine Room. This little gem is one where I have butted heads recently with a LROS Surveyor. The Series 2 CATS come with Plate Coolers (my Avatar is one of these on a 3516) combining the Jacket Water, Charge Air Cooler Coolant and Fuel Coolers which require Sea Water Filters with a screen size of max 2.5mm. This is because the passages in the plate coolers are very small and can be choked easily with things passing through them that are bigger than 2.5mm.

    The Direct Bilge suction I was arguing about was connected directly to the Main Engine SW Pump inlet and had no type of strainer which it turns out is not permitted by Class anyway. If this were used in anger when a major flood was on the go it is quite likely that the engine would overheat and stop by it's own protection further adding to your problems.

    It is only in the times of absolute need that some of these extra systems do not work well or don't work well at all. Not something that can really be tested on Sea Trials.

    There could be any number of reasons why a major breach of the hull which this seems to have been caused the vessel to founder.

    Were all Watertight Doors closed, were all bulkhead penetrations well finished off, were the Engine Room Bulkheads welded all the way around properly, was the Emergency Bilge pump functioning properly?

    It will be very interesting to find out where the faults lie when all questions are answered. I do not know how quickly the French Marine Accident Investigation System works so it might well be sometime till all the facts are known and the inevitable finger pointing begins.

    BTW. In answer to a couple of things said here. I do not believe Rubber Hose would be used in the Exhaust Pipe of a yacht like this, Rubber couplings with flanges yes but not hose as such.

    The lights might have been powered by the Emergency Genset which must be air cooled and mounted above the weatherdeck so it could well have still been running or they might be UPS supplied as some builders like to do to help stop them flickering when heavy electrical consumers start up
  3. airship

    airship Senior Member

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    It would indeed appear to be the M/Y YOGI, apparently the biggest yacht so far built to conform to the French classification "RIF - Registre International Français", France's cheaper alternative to the MCA (because the French authorities have basically and simply translated most MCA regulations into French before establishing this new French class of commercial vessel (on the cheap - or did I already mention that)?.

    But was the Captain or Master the last person to be evacuated off the vessel...we should be told.
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    It will be interesting to know if the French Equivalent of the MCA Regs have taken some shortcuts that might have made the difference between saving and losing the vessel.

    It would also be interesting to know the extent of actual compliance with these regs as well as if the construction supervision was up to the standard expected of a major Classification Society.
  5. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Nope, the New Post search function is the only one I ever use.
    (Too lazy to scroll every chapter...New Post=Instant Reward :rolleyes:)
  6. sunchaserv

    sunchaserv Member

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    The details on the exhaust design will be interesting to see. On a vessel this size isn't it common that the ER has a full time crew member in place? Possibly the "leak" was not in the ER but further aft along the exhaust water run causing a minor list that overwhelmed a low hull viewing port. Or maybe a submersible opening became fouled yada yada -----------
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  7. C4ENG

    C4ENG Senior Member

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    You would be very surprised to find the real truth in that statement. More times than not, yacht owners have there top right hand man who runs there personal businesses and affairs, hire people for there yacht. The right hand man might be good at running the other affairs but knows very little in the ways of the sea fairing world and that assistant may or may not know how to question and hire proper personnel for the vessel.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    8 is a very very light crew for a yacht this size. There really should be at least 3 crew on shift, minimum, if the boat is underway one at the helm another going around doing interior bilge checks and another to assist the Captain if there is an issue that needs to be checked out. I would imagine it would take several minutes just to transverse from the helm to the engine room and a good 5 minutes to properly check everything in the engine room. If the yacht was undercrewed and traveling 24 hours a day for several days they could've been fatigued and running less than optimal watches.

    Don't assume that the crew was knowledgable or that they were paying attention. It's quite possible the engineer was asleep or off shift and the lowliest of deckhands was assigned to do the engine room checks.

    If you look at the video with the helicopter, the generator was running (judging the by exhaust water/flow coming out the side), the entire time. It goes to show that no matter what the size of the yacht is, it is not impervious to sinking and that you have to pay attention all of the time.

    I'm very surprised that it went down as quickly as it did, and that it went down in the first place. Even if the exhaust blew off the thru-hull, it should've been contained in 1 compartment. Chances are the watertight door to that compartment were left open. I though most all of these really large megayachts are dry-stacked and then have a smaller raw water discharge that comes out at the waterline like a 4" discharge.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I agree.......when I was fairly new in this business I got a job on a 180'ish (they had 2 in this size) Motoryacht which was a Megayacht back then and several smaller 65' ish yachts for various purposes. I wasn't a Captain at the time, but a Mate yet had a lot of experience running boats and a lot of seatime. And I had it in my mind that I wanted to work on Megayachts instead of full time crew on 65'-110' (at that time), until I did it and found out it's not what I want to do.

    They had a really weird crew arrangement that someone in the Corporate office thought up. Nobody had a fixed position on the yacht besides the Captain and Engineer, and aside from those people, nobody even worked on the same yacht, they kept shifting you around from position to position and even boat to boat for each guest rotation. One time you're playing deckhand for 3 days, the next 3 days you're a galley assistant, the next 3 days a stewardess, the next 3 days a bartender. So not only did you not remember where anything was on the boat you were on, you also had a different boss every 3 or 4 days, you weren't even doing the same position.

    But it gets better. They had all of these so called ranks. Captain, 1st Officer, 2nd Officer, 3rd Officer, 1st Mate, 2nd Mate, and 3rd Mate. It didn't matter if you had a USCG 1600 ton master or no experience at all, you had to start out in the lowliest position of 3rd mate with them at the lowliest pay grade. So, nobody with any experience would apply to their job listings. They did train their employees fairly well, but there was no standardized way to do things. One boss would tell you to use Collinite Metal Wax on the stainless, the next person tells you they don't use that for that and to use Flitz. The problem was, that by this time, even their head Captains of the megayachts had started at the bottom and worked their way up to Captain of a 180'ish. So their experience window was narrowing and narrowing, and since nobody had outside experience to start with, or worked under another Captain, all anyone ever knew is what they learned there. So in a lot of ways, a lot of the crew was severely lacking due to the lack of outside knowledge, and their system made for too many chiefs and not enough indians, and they had almost a 5% turnover every month.

    But to put it into perspective, they had someone they promoted to Captain of one of the smaller boats, that held a USCG 500 Ton master, and they couldn't even differentiate how to read the markers and stay in the channel and had to demote that person from running one of the smaller 65'ish foot boats.

    And, it was downright dangerous. Right when you knew where everything was on one of the 180'ish megayachts after spending 2 weeks on it in 4 or so different positions. They would switch you over to the other 180'ish megayacht. So you had no idea where any of the safety equipment was like fire extinguishers etc etc.....and were all confused
    I worked there for a month and decided it wasn't my cup of tea and moved on.
  10. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    This yacht might well be UMS which means there doesn't need to be someone in the ER or ECR they just have to be able to respond to Alarms.
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    That's true. However, there is nothing that substitutes for a good visual check every hour just to see that nothing is brewing that could turn into a disaster.
  12. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
  13. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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  14. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    It might surprise you to learn how many modern ships are run UMS, there are no statute requirements for anyone to enter the machinery spaces to check things are working as there is a comprehensive alarm system monitoring the whole operation or the ship should not have it's UMS Class Notation.

    Should part of the Alarm and Monitoring System related to UMS Operations not be in full working order however there is no option in my book other than to return to a fully manned engine room.

    You might also be interested to learn that there is a strong push from a certain large Container Ship operator for Un Manned Bridges these days. It is being strongly resisted by the Flag State from what I hear but do not expect the idea to be abandoned till it has been at least tried a few times.

    It has also met extreme resistance from another FS Representative I asked about the concept over dinner one night.
  15. wscott52

    wscott52 Senior Member

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    I'm sure the container operators would like to have UnManned Ships eventually. They could board a docking crew at the sea buoy and reverse the process leaving. The docking crew wouldn't even have to program the ships next destination as that could be done by satellite from corporate HQ. I think the technology exists today, or is very close. There might be some objection from sailors expected to share the ocean with 1,000' long robotic ships.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  16. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Of interesting note; the February issue of PMY, page 32, comparing 5 star hotels with Megayachts, make comment of Yogi just getting purchased by a French hospitality group. Also states "the first megayacht to fly the French flag". No comment on her build or class.
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I understand that there are no requirements to have the engine room manned or checked on, if the ship has it's UMS. However, there is no requirement on the smaller pleasure yachts to do engine room checks, yet every prudent Captain I know does them or has them done on a frequent basis.... every hour or two.

    I'm fully aware of engine room camera's and their merits as well. However, the camera's cannot see everything, and you can detect things early by physically seeing, smelling, and hearing whats going on in the engine room with a quick minute or two check. I've personally detected several things during an engine room check that we didn't see on the camera's......such as the circulation pump on a 16v2000 leaking a good amount in which we were able to take the cap off, add coolant periodically, and got into port 150 miles away without the engine overheating......among other things......an electrical engine fire on a Marquis a minute after the engine was started, and another Marquis where the starter stayed engaged and was smoking and about to catch fire and a few others.
  18. lobo

    lobo Senior Member

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    From the yard's webpages:
    • Builder: Proteksan Turquoise Yachts Inc.
    • Exterior Styling: Proteksan Turquoise Yachts Inc. / Jean Guy Verges
    • Interior Styling: Jean Guy Verges
    • Naval Architect: Proteksan Turquoise Yachts Inc.
    • Classification: ABS, +A1, +AMS, Commercial Yachting Services, (E)
    • MCA Compliancy: MCA LY2
    • Construction: Steel hull & Aluminium superstructure
  19. lobo

    lobo Senior Member

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    First Proteksan response

    There is an interview with the CEO of Proteksan on the Boat International news page with some further technical details - she apparently took 7h to go down, from first mayday.

    Not sure if posting a link would be allowed here ...
  20. sunchaserv

    sunchaserv Member

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    CaptJ I could not agree with you more on the importance of laying eyes, ears and nose on ER happenings - frequently. Not only the ER though, but other places where major through hulls exist such as rudders. On too many vessels, underwater exhausts are not designed properly with water inflow potential well beyond the bilge or crash pump capacity. Would Yogi's exhausts have been above or below normal waterline?

    My wife feels the best use of an ER camera is to watch me as I check out things in the ER. High on the list of requirements should be ready ER access. Surprisingly, some very nice vessels require you to access the ER by going out in the rain, wind or spray to enter the ER.
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