Click for ZF Click for Llebroc Click for Mag Bay Click for Lurssen Click for Abeking

Propeller Recommendations

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by DOCKMASTER, Sep 10, 2019 at 4:32 PM.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    I wanted to do this in a separate thread so as not to make my Repower thread too long. I'm starting a repower of my 54' Donzi and have determined I need to increase shaft size and thus will need new props. I'm looking for some real world feedback on good props. Boat is a 1994 54' Donzi Sportfish. It is getting CAT C-18s @ 1150 with ZF 665 gears with a ratio of 1.97:1. Existing engine are DD 12v92 1080 hp with 1.66:1 gears. Existing props are 28x37 4 blade. I do not know manufacturer of existing props. I am able to make full 2300 rpm with current props with full load and do about 31 knots. Cruising at 72% load at 1850 rpms currently yields about 20 knots with full load.

    I hear good things about Veem and Michigan. What about ZF wheels, Acme or others? Anybody running the Veem Interceptor with the pitch strips that are easily adjusted? I doubt I can go much larger than 28" diameter without getting too close to the hull. I'll measure tip clearance when I haul-out later this month.
    Pictures from older haul-out showing existing props:
    Tiger Shark II 004.jpg Tiger Shark II 011.jpg
    Tiger Shark II 004.jpg
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2019 at 5:41 PM
  2. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    19,436
    Location:
    South Florida
    I love threads like this.
  3. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,495
    Location:
    Dana Point, Ca
    So I see a few things:
    That strut looks nice and massive, the barrel looks plenty long enough to take a longer cutlass bearing, hoping you can get it bored for the bigger shaft? Are the bolts accessible from the inside?
    The gap from the forward propeller face to the aft face of the strut barrel looks too large, normally 1 x shaft diameter (2-1/2”) is max, 1-1/4” is preferred. You can adjust the overall shaft length on the new one to take care of this issue, double check before you order.
    The thin jam nut is in the wrong location, it should be first and then the large nut should follow, about 50% of the shipyards seem to get that right.
    Minimum prop tip clearance range for a non-tunnel design is typically 15% - 20% of the prop diameter. So for a 28” prop, that is 4.2” to 5.6”.
    Make sure your new prop is setup for a Propsmith puller tool.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    11,190
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    You shouldn't need to change diameter if the boat has no issues getting out of the hole or staying on plane with what you've got. I've run both Veems as well as michigans,, federals, etc. Veems would be my instant first choice. I've run both the normal and the interceptors. In your situation the Interceptors might be a good choice as you can easily change cup. While you're at it, I'd soda blast the bottom to gelcoat and put new barrier coat and bottom paint. It looks like you have a lot of layers of paint. I did it on a 26 knot cruise on a 2007 62' that had a lot of layers and the boat picked up 2 knots and cruised at 28 knots back in 2014.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019 at 8:54 PM
  5. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,253
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, Delaware Bay & S.Jersey
    It's the " while you're at its " & the " might as wells " that sneak up and cost you too.
  6. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    These photos are old from when I bought the boat and surveyed it. All paint was removed and redone. The prop nuts are now in proper orientation. I’ve been aware of too much shaft exposed between the strut and prop since I bought it. We had planned to either cut the shaft or set new engine fwd a bit to draw shaft in closer. Now that I’m going to new shafts and props we will make sure it is correct.
    The strut bolts are reasonably accessible but I think we will just bore the strut in place. We have all the equipment and expertise to do this. This way we can do a straight thru line bore into the shaft log if I have to open that up a bit too.
    I’m skeptical of those Veem interceptors. Yes, it would be great to be able to make simple adjustments, especially in my case with new engines, slower shaft speed, lighter boat, etc. But those adjustment strips on the Veem don’t look like they would last very long. Anyone run these for any length of time? Veem advertises Cabo and Riviera as OEMs using them. Any others? What are Viking, Hatteras, Spencer, etc using these days?
  7. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,495
    Location:
    Dana Point, Ca
    I think Viking is predominantly Veem Interceptors, they have a great following for SF over 30 knots.
    The advantage is that you can account for increasing or decreasing load by exchanging the Interceptor inserts: https://veempropellers.com/interceptor-technology/
    It has been around long enough that I would consider it a proven product.
    A good prop shop should be able to spec a prop that is very close to your needs. They should be able to specify the pitch within 1", if they miss it you should have an agreement ahead of time. You don't want to be on the ticket for a new prop and then have to take out more than an 1" of pitch IMO.
    Another thing to keep in mind - you want to avoid at all costs the Propeller Hub diameter being larger than the Strut Barrel diameter. This is a significant contributor to Propeller Blade Root Burn at the hub and is easy to overlook.
    I would also consider the Federal line from MW: https://www.miwheel.com/propellers/brands/federal-propellers/ To see what fits in your budget and delivery times.
    A 31 -32 knot WOT sportfisher is not quite as challenging to prop as the 40 Vikings/Hatteras or 45 knot custom Sf like Spencer, so you have some leeway in your selection. Would pass on other brands for this application.
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,470
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Talk to a good prop shop. That s what I did when I repowered my 53 MY and the numbers were perfect.
  9. Donzi 54

    Donzi 54 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Point Pleasant, NJ & Morehead City, NC
    Adam, FYI we are spinning 33's so you shouldn't have any problems with fit. But it did take multiple try's with props to get it right. Started with Michigan wheels then ended up with Ellis props (no longer in production). Would be nice to try out Veem someday.
  10. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    So I just got my first prop recommendation from ZF. They indicate if I go with 1.97:1 then I really need to increase prop diameter as 28" is too small. I know I can safely increase, just not sure by how much. The recommendation is for a 33" x 40" 4 blade in what they call their Speed Master line. This is supposed to yield 32 knots at WOT of 2300 rpm. I'll get more specifics, as this is all I have for now. I'm really more interested in what the cruising speed at 80% load will be vs. top speed.
    Given Donzi 54 indicates he is safely running a 33" I see no reason I can't do same since we have same hulls.

    Yes, I plan to get a recommendation for Veem and Michigan and possibly others. This is just first one I got back and was easy since I'm already working with ZF on the gears and controls.

    Additionally, I'm looking to see if we have the correct dyno cells at our yard to weigh the boat once it gets into the building. I have the weights from previous haul-outs on Travellift but can't recall for certain how much fuel was on board. I know the original dry weight is listed at 51,000 but I'm way heavier now. Closer to 70,000 full load. So I'm using 68,000 for the weight after the repower as I should easily shed 2,000 lbs. This is probably a little on the high side but I doubt far off.
  11. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,495
    Location:
    Dana Point, Ca
    Great information.

    Keep in mind that Donzi 54 mentioned he replaced his struts during his repower (I recall), so you may not have the same amount of drop to clear a 33" Diameter Prop plus a minimum 15% (4.95") Propeller tip clearance > total drop from shaft centerline is 33"/2 + 4.95 = 21.45". Maybe Donzi 54 can shed some light on what strut he used?

    Curious to see what the other prop guys recommend, a quick calc on my part is showing 33" x 40" but 5-Blade, but this will depend on each manufacturer Blade Area Ratio. My calc only has a BAR of o,85, kind of on the light side.
  12. Donzi 54

    Donzi 54 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Point Pleasant, NJ & Morehead City, NC
    Something you should look out for. Check your rudders closely, where the rudder shaft goes into the rudder blade. If you have the same stainless rudders that I originally had, they had started flexing and developed stress cracks. They were made of thin stainless plates. I change mine out to a set of much stronger Western Branch rudders.
  13. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska

    Thank you. We will have a look and NDT the area where the shaft connects to the blade. Lew do you have any specs on the struts you changed to? Were they longer to give you more blade clearance? Of course if they were longer this would increase your shaft angle. I can't imagine the shaft logs have the ability to be bored and allow a steeper angle? If you used longer struts did you rebuild the shaft logs to the new angle?
  14. Donzi 54

    Donzi 54 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Point Pleasant, NJ & Morehead City, NC
    I recently started looking though my rather large file of invoices. That was one item that only specified the cost of the struts. I will recheck if there is other info on strut manufacturer. My guess is they used the same strut that Roscioli was using at that time on the 58 footer being that the 12v2000 was what they where installing
  15. Donzi 54

    Donzi 54 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Point Pleasant, NJ & Morehead City, NC
    I can get your that info. They where replaced well after the engine replacement. They were a simple swap. W/B website has all the info on how to size.
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    11,190
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I would go with Veems for the props. A lot of different new boats I've been running spec out Veems……..the veems run very smooth throughout the range and perform very well and have great metallurgy. The michigans/Federals seem to bend blades if you touch anything with them (2x4" size log, etc.)
  17. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,495
    Location:
    Dana Point, Ca
    Those are nice rudders, quite an improvement of flat plate designed rudders.
  18. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    Just got the recommendation from a Veem supplier. 33x40 5 blade interceptor. I was told with the blade surface area it is more like 40.5" pitch. Apparently with the removable strips you get about 1" pitch adjustability. We have a commercial relationship with this supplier and he told me honestly don't put anything but Veems on that boat. He sells the many other wheel manufacturer's too but said they will be minimally cheaper but the Veems are far superior in his opinion. I realize he is in the business to sell more expensive props but keep in mind this guy does 100x more commercial business with us then these props cost so he is more motivated to keep us happy then make a few more bucks on this sale. :)
  19. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,495
    Location:
    Dana Point, Ca
    Looks like a great choice to me ;)
  20. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    Yeah I'm leaning heavily toward the Veem props. We'll get the boat weighed and verify tip clearances and all that then I can hone in on proper diameter and pitch and get them ordered once I finalize shaft diameter. Dealer quoted 4 weeks delivery so that won't be an issue time wise. Same shop is quoting the new shafts and couplings as well.

Share This Page